Oral History Interview with Pee Wee King

Here's the German one. There's a picture that'll never be duplicated — all these guys are dead--Hank Williams is dead, George Morgan (??) is dead — his daughter and I talked together in the dressin' room quite a while — and she's really— I said, “Laurie,” — I read the riot act to her about personal appearance dates. I said, “remember — you are the one that's the breadwinner, and don't treat your boys like a lady (??). Be firm with 'em. If they need a cussin' our or kick in the rear, let 'em know that you're in this for the business of it— 'cause your died [dad] taught you the business. George Morgan's name is goin' to live forever because [because] he was a fine businessman and entertainer.”

She says, “you're the only one who ever told me that.” I says, “well, take it for what it's worth.”

[Wade reads in German]"In jahre 19—, Pee Wee in the Country Music Hall of Fame.”

[translates].

“J.L. Frank--in the year 1974 was Pee Wee in the Country Music Hall of Fame chosen or elected, exactly seven years after his late father-in-law J.L. Frank. Through this election came about the only son-in-law and father-in-law combination in the Hall of Fame." At that time. But I don't think it's been duplicated 'cause there's been not even father and son. There are English words in the middle of the German: "das va ein crossover song,” — talking about "Slow Poke." “Pee Wee machte ... Tennessee tears — ein...hit...."

I'm tryin' to find that other one when I did the interview with the other girl. Oh, here it is — the last interview I did with (??) in German. They put me in the rock 'n' roll era. And dis [this] is what her interview is all about. They did it in Germany by mail — she wrote the questions and I answered. And then they translated to German. [Wade reads in German and then translates] "Before I go into answering your questions, I must thank you. I received your Rockin' 50s magazine and it was a delightful surprise." See, because that's where the record came out that I was a rock 'n roll before Bill Haley was. [chuckles]

I got somepin [something] else to show ya [you]. In Chicago, this guy wrote this (??) book. He has used everybody, and I got mine over here and on the back, too. He's got 'em all— Hank Williams, Jr., Justin Tubb — I'm probably mentioned in there because of the lawsuit he had — oh, I was with his youngest son with his second wife the other night and boy, he was a cute kid — used to get behind the wheel of the bus and drive. Here it is" (??) ... 1914 ... Wisconsin... U.S.A. ... Golden West Cowboys ... the King of Western swing … Kuczynski." so I was one of their sons. My parents' names were Helen and John. Yon is what they called him.

"Close and Personal" — that's Amusement Business — I got the guy's card right here. In fact, I got to write him a letter right away. It got it [in] last night — the last place I stopped. I thought I had it in my billfold--. Here's a letter that came in the mail yesterday... Dennis Urlab (??) — German/ — from New York state. Dis [This] is the guy that got the writeup... This is the Rockin' '50s and this one was put out by Country Song. It's Munich, Germany. That's the one that interview me — Ramon Frederich Gabimad (??) —Volfenbettl (??). Amusement Business is a trade magazine for all people in the amusement business who buy acts and sell acts. The date on it is April 13, 1990. There's a story put out in Owensboro —we played down there. This is the BMI [Broadcast Music Incorporated] stuff. Here's a close-up. The reason I started it was because I figured--.

[Looking through memorabilia] That's Autry's museum — he was askin' for...that's his own newsletter. The Derby Festival thing to show that I participated in the local festivities...Indiana Governor’s Cup — that's what we used for [the] grand marshal at the Madison Regatta. That’s Knoxville, Tennessee — I was supposed to go to the reunion of all the (??). That's all about Jimmie Rodgers (??)...some of the: shows we had...this was at the Carolina Jamboree Park in 1982...Fair Day — Georgia Mountain Fair...he recorded "Tennessee Waltz." There he was — Roger Whittaker(??)--Angie Humphrey got married and that was it as far as her career was concerned.

Talked to Charlie and [he] sent me [an] invitation to come to the state fair to be his guest here at the Kentucky State Fair...now this is it — 1983 — Hank Williams, Ernest

Tubb...I was chairman for the Jimmie Rodgers telethon...Memorial Festival, Meridian,

Mississippi. Here's the ones that caused the pictures of Ernest Tubb and Bill Monroe (??) the museum--Jimmie Rodgers — great. That’s a telephone interview regardin’ [regarding] the show---Grapevine, Texas. — I mean that's a swingin' spot — there it is — that's how big the theater is — seats about 800, I guess I was there three times and finally I went out to the big mall-in Dallas and that's where we spent the whole week [chuckles]. He’s writing me about Person Dealers invoices. I said to each one of my boys in the band, “you thought you'd never make it, didn't you?” I says, “it goes back to the old expression that that Mr. Frank used to say, no one makes it on his own. And no one makes it without the help of somebody else.” And I says, “thank you for your help [chuckles].”

So far, I've only got two boys that didn't answer my letters. National Barn Dance here--

found a dealer for baseball cards —swap ‘em--theyre gonna sell 'em at the capitol at Nashville--. Changes—albums—and I was just with his baby Sally, his youngest kid — last night— he says, “Uncle Pee Wee, I'm - a bus driver now. [chuckles] — I drive the bus for Charlie Daniels — if you see me in Louisville.” Here’s a picture for the single baseball card number one — I've got a little story on that--on the back of the — on the number two cover album made in Germany--they bought out to RCA Victor — I mean the

whole shebang—it is a new album because it’s (??) (Cooley's??) — he made thisone before he died.

There's the kind of letters I hate to get and can't do nothin' [anything] about — I don't have nothin’ [anything] to give 'em for that — they send them out wholesale — all you can see is the letterhead sayin' “dear Mr. King. “And the sad part of it is — that's my son's father-in-law. I knew I had that other book by Minnie [Pearl] — this is her newest book — and also ' dis [this] woman (??) who wrote "Heartbreak Hotel" — she was there last night, and we were talkin'. She and I and Lydia visited for quite a while because we've known each other ever since our Jacksonville days when she lived dere [there] with her husband and then got a divorce from him — and that moved her home — her uncle is the governor.

And this is somethin' that a girl here in Louisville had written about —(??) woman ...They served all the artists a delicious supper last night — oh, boy, but it was late — we had everything in the world you could possibly find...cold cuts, hot veal — anything you wanted — all you had to do was go to the right table — they served it in the Roy Acuff Theater — that big auditorium.

I don't know the first thing about how to operate that [photocopier] —- and also computers. Oh, man, I tell ya [you]— when I stop and watch my little grandchildren usin' computers at the age of six already. [referring to food Lydia has brought in] Marietta buys all that stuff out of a big can. The book on country music by Paul Hemphill — he's from Alabama —he lives in Nashville now. This letter means television and radio performances — I know every time it's used — they have a monitor system — out of this world — they monitor radio stations all over the United States and they have agents that go out and sell licenses to the talks (??), auditoriums and all of that. There's [There are] two great big ones — ASCAP [American Association of Composers, Authors, and Publishers] and BMI. See, we were on the verge at that time of having a million on "Slow Poke." We get a royalty for every performance— we get about 6 cents — so these radio stations keep track of it. They have to keep a log of all that. Then they have what we call an annual meeting — BMI people — and these are all (??) songs performed in the United States.

One guy — "Gentle on My Mind" — "By the Time I Get to Phoenix" — by Glenn

Campbell — 4 million records. "Tennessee Waltz" is 3 million. Of course, they don't consider "You Belong to Me" a hillbilly song, but they finally — we convinced ‘em it was--it's also a Country music song. We got another one — "Bonaparte's Retreat" — 1 million. You got to be a million. "You Belong to Me" is a million, too. I've had four. "Tennessee Waltz" is the biggest — did 3.5 million on that. It has to be one of the most popular songs in the world. Biggest country song — when they punch the button, what song is the biggest in Country music? — automatically it goes to "Tennessee Waltz.”

(??) Axton—-she's the one who wrote "Heartbreak Hotel," her son is Hoyt Axton. He's an

actor and TV star and recording star. This was the fan magazine Minnie used to put out in 1945 — we had the cover that year — front page — that's when we were really hot and heavy. And he Olsen (??) owned the club downtown. And when he passed away, his wife said, “I want you to write to Pee Wee because they made it.” See, we had a leather (??) business together — Sticks and I and the drummer — and we carved out stuff in leather

— everything was just... I invested in the business — well, I helped 'em out — let's

put it that way. Of course, he liked it because he lived above the store — he had his rent paid (??) off?? — he moved (??). [chuckles]. But it was a good venture—see, when I gave away Christmas presents in Chicago on the television show, I had 17 belts made — even had a briefcase —and then for the governor of Tennessee, we had a Pee Wee King thing — well, here's a sample of what he did. [shows the gift]

Sticks the drummer made this — he was a talented kid, he was. This was made at the store on Bardstown Road. But here's what got me — he's from Tennessee, and he left out an "e.” And he did that for the governor, too. He made two of 'em together and he never thought about it, see. He's such a talented guy. Course, he still comes by — he's in the bidness [business] now in San Diego with his wife's sister. They take old broken-down houses and fix 'em up and put poor people in 'em or Mexican girls take care of--.

And here's what I referred to when we played different parts of the country and would play a polka album (??) or an old-timey dance album. That was the cover. This is an album of songs we used to sell on our tours . . . that's a record company — Fryer (??)/— this was the front cover and that was the back cover. This is for a recording.

This is the program —"Hats Off to Minnie Pearl." It's going to run in October, and I don't know why but I'm gonna tell you a story about that. Dis [This] is a Chicago outfit— that guy conceived the idea, and he got permission from the Nashville Network to do the whole thing down there. He's a hustler — he's a goodguy [good guy] and I met 'im [him] and I met his son and the production manager and the director — they're employees of his. He's produced one or two or three other shows. And dis [this] was a big project. He wanted to do something for Minnie Pearl because he loved Minnie — he thought she was the

greatest woman — a combination of Goldie Hawn and Martha Raye and Judy Canova and

all. And he says, “there's no way you can explain why you love a person like dat [that].” And

her this morning's paper had the best writeup on her, — about the big reunion and everything else.

But he came into Nashville and people shied from him in Chicago — guy comin' down here for a hillbilly thing, you know — but it wasn't hillbilly--it was classier— we were all in tuxedos — that was a formal. And here's the name of it — "Hats Off to Minnie." And look what's on the front of it [chuckles] — $1.98!! Boy, I tell you. I got a couple of pretty good scenes with her. And Lydia says one of the best ones that she and I [had] just thrown together as if it were engrossed in talkin' about it— she said, “I don't know what you all talked about,” but she said, “(??).” These are some things that she had written or said, "in Grinder's Switch, you don't read the paper to find out who was doing what — you already know that [chuckles] — but to find out if they caught [chuckles]."

That's Rod Brassfield (??). I think he and his group are from Tennessee. All these people were there — here's a list of all — here's addressed of 'em (??). And I got a copy of the script — part of it. But the script was that. It runs — we rehearsed Tuesday 4.5 hours and then came back Wednesday at 1 o’clock —12:30 was the call — for goin' through some of the things. And then we started filming at 7:30 and we didn't get through till 12:30. Five hours.

They said that this might be one of the biggest gatherings of Country and

Western stars. And here's the show — if you just read who's doin' the show and all

that — here's just one segment that they used. The show opens with Roy and her father's — and all of us — Jimmy Dean, (??) Reed, Roy Clark, Glenn Campbell —Glenn stole the show — he lives in California — he flew in for that. And so does Jimmy Dean. And Roy Clark. Jim Nabors came in. And former Gov. Dunn (??), Grandpa Jones. And then — here's the one I was on — Roy Acuff, (??) Porter Wagonner, and then Hank Thompson — we were on the set — a complete movie — and Pat Boone, and Brenda Lee. And then there's a (??) for a videotape of — the guy who's married to Laurie --he big (??) from Cincinnati— he's a big television star and movie star... And Jimmy Dickens and Bill Monroe and "Blue Moon of

Kentucky", Bill Anderson, Pee Wee King... and I 'm lookin' forward to ... And here's the tickets for your seats.

Everything, of course, slanted to Minnie Pearl's hat and Minnie Pearl and they booked ??) the Opry (??)... Ronnie McDowell — Ronnie and (??) were there. That's a tape, she sings and jokes... there are tapes from the early days of Minnie Pearl. Of course, since her stroke, she hasn't been doin' anything. I mean nothin.’ And Henry [Pearl’s husband] said, “I wouldn't let her because I was afraid.” He said, “we got your letter about stone [the stroke] — so put down that you got to move around and get around.”

When I had my stroke, the first thing I wanted to do was drive a car. And knowin' Minnie, I guess the first thing she'll wanna do is be back on "Hee Haw" because she's in an element that she's [she] loves. And he said, “I read it to her,”— this is what he wrote to me — he didn't write it to her — he said he wrote it to me — and I says, “Lydia took care and made sure that I didn't drive although I wanted to drive.” Course, I did drive — I ran out Thanksgiving to...it seems like death (??), but they couldn't do it. And the public understood.

The only thing I worry about, there was [were] too many "Minnie, I love you, I worship you, you're my idol.” I'd be willin' to say — as if she had already passed. Maybe somebody knows somethin' that we don't know. Roy don't [doesn’t] even know. I sat — we were in Roy's dressin' room the whole damn day — Roy Acuff. And I talked to 'im [him]. I don't think they're holding it off the air for that reason — I don't think they've got the money yet — it hasn't been sold. By the way, that's one thing Ralph told me. He says, “you tell Mr. Hall to get to New York or somewhere and sell it to somebody before he even writes it, because I tell ya [you],” he said, “if you don’t,” — I didn't believe this guy would know, just what you said — Who's Ralph Emery? But the guy who wrote the book sold him because he says, “Ralph Emery — because of TNN — is a national institution.” And that's why I bought it. And they all said, “well, go ahead den [then] if you think (??) can do it, well do it.

The Statler Brothers, see how they interspersed it with people. The actual

show that is aired on TV will be 2 hours. . .Charlie Daniels and this was cute — wore her hat and came out singin' "Pretty Woman" and then the band is great — I got a tape for sale of the band, when we were down there. We taped this yesterday, May 6. At 7 p.m., the doors closed. The house was packed. This was at the Grand Ole Opry. It seats about 4,400.

Lydia and I were talkin' — if I go down for a meeting and spend the night there — we wantyou [want you] to be our guests — go down and meet some of those people — and come back the next day. You can be slowin’ down a little — you probably have to.

This is a big-time thing — as big as they make 'em — as big as the Country- Western awards. The Minnie Pearl tribute. The producer Lynn Dersher (??) — the guy who wrote me the letter who lives in Chicago — he's a great guy. I'd say he's in his early 50s. I told him my joke about (??)— it's a true story. I says, “Lynn, were you bothered by the — was your office downtown in the Chicago flood?” He said, “hell, no.” He said, “I'm out in the suburbs.” He says, “why do you [ask] — I didn't think anybody out of Chicago wanted to even know about it.” I says, yeah, I had to call my Polish brother-in-law up there and tell 'im [him] I called Mr. Daley and I want to run him for water commissioner [chuckles].” And he said, “you go to hell, brother-in-law.” He said, “I'd say the same thing if I was your brother-in-law.” [chuckles]

Dwight Yoakum was there. Oh, Dwight and I had a good time — we visited and we

Living drank a beer together. He's living in Nashville now, not California. Roger Miller and so does Glenn and some of the others live in California. And George Jones (??) up — he said, “here's [the] one song that I ever wrote that was so dear to my heart I dedicated it to all you guys that (??) your wife and let it go,” and he says, “by God, this is one I'm gonna tell ya [you] how it's done.” And he screwed up and had to do it again — we had a five-minute segment that took two hours, by havin' trouble with the sound and everything and station and picture (??) — a beautiful set.

Jim Nabors is from Alabama and a graduate of the University of Alabama. He come [came] down — he said, “oh, Pee Wee! By God, I'm glad to see you. At least, I see a smilin' [smiling] face!” He said, “I've always known you for one thing — you smile all the time.” And then he

said, “a damn fool will smile at anything.” Yeah, Jim is a waste. I'd say 90% of those people just beyond wastin' [wasting] their... It was like a reunion — it was the biggest Country music reunion... Pat Boone lives in Hollywood, and he says his wife stayed home because of the California-L.A. situation [referring to the 1992 Los Angeles riots following the police brutality case involving Rodney King] — she didn't want to be leavin' the house empty, so... And all the lights are on — he had to call her at midnight which is 9 o'clock there [in Los Angeles]. Lamar Alexander and ... — both Tennessee governors.

Oh, I pulled a good one. I says, he come [came] up — he says, “well, Pee Wee, by God,

I'm glad to see you here. Ol’ John [Hobbs] told me you were gonna come in.” [He is the one] that owns all that territory and he and John are partners in some bidness [business]. And I says, “excuse me — what's your name?” And he says, “I'm Governor [Ned Ray] McWherter.” I says, “John made me do it!” I pulled out of that one! [chuckles] And I says, “but it didn't work, did it? But I want to thank you for the citation,” — I have a citation from [the] governor — it says, make [making] me [an] honorary citizen of Nashville. Oh, he's a pleasant guy. He and John were fightin’ for a racetrack down there in Nashville, and they voted against it, and he went up to Franklin [Ky.] and he and Mr. Hobbs go to Franklin all the time to the racetrack. And their wives are mad at 'em.

I was pleased with what happened. Burt Reynolds — that's the guy that...he says,

“Minnie, I've always loved you. And when I finally got to meet you,” he said, “I found out that the pictures you do and the things you do don't do you justice.” And he said, “I only wished [that] I'd been the one you picked out instead of Henry [chuckles].” And I’m told Henry laughed about it. Henry was there. He made the closing speech and said he wanted to thank everybody on that show. Henry Cannon.

Minnie's real first name is Sarah. She had one of her sisters on there on one of her flashbacks. And she had her best walker (??) in there who stood up to the wedding. And then she had Lydia and I for a wedding picture and all these — there was a lot of stuff she just — but you could tell that Minnie had a part to do in producin' [producing] that show. I don't know if she can talk, I wouldn't ask Henry — because she doesn't answer the phone — the maid answers the phone — and then comes ol' Henry — right off the bat, says, “Minnie can't come to the phone.”

It was one of the best programs I've ever been to. It was a real occasion. I had a personal stake in it. She was my friend for longer than most of them. I go back as far as her beginning! ''Cause when they took her to the Grand Ole Opry, the first day she worked with me and then she went to Roy for a week and then she come [came] back to me. She had an expression — she used to say, “I'm so proud to be here; I'm so proud I was able to come.” And Roy said, “Minnie, you'll have to leave off that part!” And he says, “it's suggestive, and I[‘ve] never had a girl on my show.” And he says, “I don't think after I tell you why,” --he says, “because the wives aren't gonna let their husbands run around with somebody –with one girl on the show.” And then she says, “well...” So, Mr. Frank says, “boy, can't you — I'll put you on with Pee Wee.”

So, we did it —she was with me for five, almost six years. We traveled from 1940 to 1970 — played dates. And it was somepin [something] else because she liked to fly — Henry was a pilot — they had their own airplane. And the Collins Sisters come [came] to work with us — we played a fair up in Ohio, and Minnie said, “I like those girls. I wish we could hire 'em and then they could ride with us in the airplane because just me and Sam are in there.” And I said, “what about him?” She said, “Henry's flyin' — I[‘ve] got the dog to talk to —" Sam is a poodle. So, we had talked to the mother and father of the Collins Sisters, and they said, “sure, go ahead. So, is Henry a licensed pilot?” I said, “oh, my God, Mr. Collins — he's the best.” Of course, he had a crash landing one time in Knoxville and (??) on it. But that's how come them [those] Collins Sisters worked with us — I'd say almost two years. Steady because Minnie and I were headlinin' [headlining] the Cassidy (??) —same bookin’ agent. So, I got that writeup — she said, “when Pee Wee signed my picture, why he signed it to "the best damn trooper of the whole group."” [chuckles]

This is the Philip Morris Show during the Derjzy Festival — not this year — that was a little bit earlier. This is the Kentucky Derby Festival with Ange Humphrey — I'd say that was in the '70s because she took my place after I had my stroke, which was [in] '78. This was a salute to Lionel Hampton — he wasn't there. Anne Murray was there; she was the star of the show, so was Ray Stevens. That's when he had a streaker — Ray Stevens' streaker from Shriner. Comes out--oh, my God, it, sold many records. Lana Ellis' article in the old Sunday Magazine of the [Louisville] Courier- Journal. These are letters that react to the article, concerning Pee Wee King's hundreds of fans in the Kentuckiana area. That was in '75, I guess. I'm always writing myself notes because I forget things — like my hat in a

McDonald's restaurant. The Lana Ellis article ran on June 22, 1975. Broadcast Music — I tink [think] we should worry about that — that explains a hell of a lot of things.

By the way, I'm goin’ out with baseball types — Country music stars' cars — to swap cars (??). I talked to Bud Rose yesterday, and he says “we're gonna try to do two of 'em — with you alone, and you and the Golden West Cowboys.” He says, “you and your picture be alone, and then it's gonna be your picture with the Golden West Cowboys,” — we have the cover that--.

Box Car — oh, they told me stories about Box Car — Oswald with Roy Acuff plays Box Car Willie every — plays six dates a year. And he drives there, and he and his wife live out of the box car and Mrs. Box Car's home and everything — he loves it out there, [chuckles]. Box Car's called here, and he said, “I don't know what I said wrong about you, but why the hell don't you come out there?” I said, “I'm waitin.’ He said, “don't wait too long — I won't live that long.”

Here's a picture of Lydia and me in '71...That was a fundraiser for Martha Layne [Collins]. That’s where Branson is — we played the first show in the Lampe Stadium. And that's why the guy started out Branson. The picture is not dated; that would have been the early '70s. It's Lampe. That's right next door to Branson. Like St. Matthews is to Louisville. So, I was one of the early ones to play there. And the manager of the Lampe Stadium had the lead role in "Jesus Christ Superstar." That's how we got to be friends because we talked about [it]— he said, “who the hell'd ever think I'd be an actor and do this part in "Jesus Christ Superstar?””

And Grandpa Jones tied the show up in a knot again — you know, Lydia, Grandpa's wife and Oswald's wife — we were wantin' to get all together — and Lydia wondered why Grandpa doesn't put out something but "what's for supper, Grandpa?" And then he goes through that whole ritual—you know — black-eyed peas, custard and mustard and you gotta buy ham and all that — if he would do that on a soundtrack and sell the cassettes on the road.— Kitty Wells — we usually hear Kitty Wells' life story on their cassette. They didn't put out a cassette for music alone — they put out a cassette with all the members of the family — even the drummer Duke, the grandson — he spoke up — he said, “boy, you don't realize what is workin' behind your grandma and grandpa playin' the drums, — he says, “if I skip a beat, they beat me over the head!” [chuckles] — Aw, it's a good — I asked Kitty about it a couple of weeks ago when were up in Joliet. And she says, “we sell more of those than we do albums. People like that variety.” And then [she] says, “we wouldn't put out a book because we could sell this more —it's easier. It's easier to put together.”

Those are--did you hear about the Tennessee — those are jokes. I've used some of these and some of those — I'm careful what I use. I didn't use the dirty stuff —I wouldn't have used that... I've got a show of the quips I would have actually used. I'd have to type it out for you.. a postcard — I don't know how many years ago — lock how long ago [a] — 2 cent stamp! I was very thin then.

I did about 8 interviews for different newspapers, and I did one for a gentleman I met in Norway — I didn't meet ‘im [him] in Norway — I met 'im [him] in Nashville, not Norway. And he come [came and] embraced me. He said, “I have played your album,” — he said,

“Pee Wee, you'll never realize what you did for me here in Nashville when you took me around and showed me different places,” — the Wax Museum and all that. He said, “I've

never forgotten it.” And he said, “the thing is about you is you're a superstar — we

think so, but nobody else knows it.” He says, “you're human — you're one of us!” [chuckles]

I've got ads that relate to my career — you got to look through all [of] them [those] books. This goes from 1934, 1935, right to the present day... Now here's the Minnie Pearl book — she mentions me in there... Got to get Lydia up at 7 o'clock this morning... — got on my stick and I says, “we're goin' home and I'll cut the grass,” which I said I was gonna do at noon, [chuckles]. We didn't get to bed last night until 1 :30 (??) — our time— we were still on Stage at 12:10 a.m. That's why I love to stay at (??)’s Inn- it's right next to the Grand Ole Opry.

My son Gene was named for Gene Autry. One time when he was a youngster, Gene

was playing with him. He asked him, “who's your favorite cowboy?” Gene said, “Roy

Rogers!” Gene Autry said, “he doesn't know the right thing to say!! [chuckles]