Oral History Interview with Pee Wee King

Wear their purple costumes - I'd wear the red suit. And I had a purple one when dey [they] had the red suits on. And I could never get used to that red jacket - it just buged [bugged] me all the time. I wanted the contracts -- they'd wear purple and I'd wear red and vice-versa. So, we always ordered two colors - or three colors a lot of times.

They play ''The Tennessee Waltz" all the time -- they don't play any other song -- just that. It's like a swing ride. I've ridden it several times. It's fun – sit and around and autograph after they get through -- especially kids.

That’s Dolly. Sevierville, Tennessee. And this is Dolly. [Showing pictures and memorabilia] This occasion was one of the Grand Ole Opry's functions of his - the 60th birthday or Roy Acuff's birthday party or somepin' [something] like that. It was a black-tie event at the Opry. And this was 1986 backstage during the awards TV show. That was either the Country Music Association or .... Some of the earlier pictures of Dolly show her to be a lot less buxom; we all think she must have had some work done, but she swears she didn't. Well, that's her prerogative. It's her image (??). This is not her hair -she has wigs all the time -- she change[s] 'em 3, 4 times a day. I've never seen her without a wig. And none of the boys in the band ever saw her without makeup on. Always professional.

Image is very important to a performer - especially like Dolly. She knew she was goin' someplace, and she was already ready for it. She created this image. She's got a new thing goin' now 'at Dollywood. Burt Reynolds and her are goin' to grand open the thing comin' up this --- she's got like a park –addition to the whole thing out there. Something added to Dollywood. And it's going to be [a] 1,000-seat theater and stuff like that.

And here was the --- show ya the difference -- I lent them the costume-- it's one I actually wore. That's the best one I ever had. That's a (??) costume—it cost[s] about $500-$600. [Talking about the wax museum figure of Pee Wee King] I recognized myself when I saw it -- the suit made it, you know. The suit is about 20 years old. But it' s in good shape . All [of] my wardrobe was always in good shape. I took care of it.

And here's where at John Hobb's place they got a museum, and you do your hand prints [handprints] and foot prints [footprints] in it. It's where the Cracker Barrel is near the Grand Ole Opry - dat's [that’s] his whole property -- all that - The Palace, the museum, he owns everything---- Ramada Inn - and I think he evens [even] owns some of that McDonald's Restaurant--- some kind of restaurant there. And this is right across the street from the entrance of Opryland.

There are a lot of prints in the concrete besides mine. Bill Monroe. Everybody that went into the wax museum that you saw their names on it - they all had to pose for that also.

I have a lot of calls on my time for things like that. It's part of the thing you[‘ve] got to do. My obligation to the public as a performer, always be kind to 'em - never fluff 'em off or anything like that. Once in a while the public can invade your privacy but you can usually climb out of that or find an excuse. If it's a rowdy place, or a noisy place - ya know - this sergeant, for instance this is a good

one. I made friends with the sergeant at Ft. Knox. Our common denominator was he had a horse, and I had a horse. And we played Ft. Knox quite a lot back in dose [those] days - entertain the soldiers at the big complex -- like a hangar it is. And we always had a great big crowd out there -- back when I had television.

And one day sergeant come over and he says, “we ought to go out and see your horse today.” I says, “ok, let's go.” So, we went out to Fern Creek, and I went in and talked to Vandy Buren (??) and his

wife -- he's retired – he was a Shriner, so we had a lot of conversation. And in the meantime, l said, “Sarg, go and put the saddle up Boots and see what you tink [think] of (??).” So, he went out there. I said, “now it's a trick horse – you[‘ve] got to watch where you touch her - where you touch 'im -- and things that you want to do.” He said, “I saw all that stuff -- don't worry. I tried to do it with mine but

mine was an old plowhorse.” He got there; I was in the house. And Reba had just made a fresh coffeecake. So, she said, “will you have a cup of coffee and cake?” I says, “yeah -- Sarge's gonna be out there -- it'll take 'im [him] a while to get used to the horse. Come out there and saddled 'im [him] up good.” Of course, he was used to saddlin’ [saddling] a horse.

And the first thing -- he was out of the gate -- out into the field – about 10, 12 acres. And when he did that, he took off. I mean he was rarin' to go. So, he hung on there and he come [came] up to the fence again. He says, “how do you get him to do the trick to raise up like that?” I said, “easy - just pull on the rein a little.” Well, he pulled on the rein, and he took his cowboy hat off, and when he did that, Boots went way up add [and] went backwards and landed on ~im [him]-- and his big bone in his leg stuck out.

And I says, “now, Sarge, what are we gonna do?” He says, “run me back -- God

damnit, I want you to put me right back to Ft. Knox to the hospital.” I says, “why at Ft. Knox? Hell, there's a doctor right here at Fern Creek and all. He says, “I[‘ve] got to do it my way.” And on the way -- I drove like crazy to bring him back to the fort and he says, “I'm gonna tell them I fell off the steps and broke my leg. Otherwise, they wouldn't pay for me.” So, he did that.

Now, couple of years later, his daughter was gettin' married. And I used to tease her, I said, “don't forget -- invite me to your wedding - I want to see what kind of a boy you've married. Or young man.” “sure 'nough,” she says, “Daddy, I want you to know that Pee Wee promised he'd come to the wedding.” So, he calls me, and it's one of the busiest times of the season for me. He says, “by God, Pee Wee, you[‘ve] got to come to my daughter's wedding and when you do,” he says, “be sure and bring your accordion along.” I says, “for what?” He says, “you know - we got to make some noise at the wedding.” I says, “well, shit, you just get some pots and pans and beat 'em together and I'll come bargin' in.” I said, “in fact, I don't think I can make the wedding.” I never heard a word from him since.

He may have wanted me to come and be the star but when he comes off with, bring the [accordion] ... And den [then] I meet 'im [him] twice at the - he does all the burgoo for the Colonels banquet - Ky. Colonels picnics. He always does that - it's like a wash tub -- they fill it up -- he's the one who cooks for them. And I played for 'em at the fairgrounds for Bill when he had the big show and burgoo and everything. Bill King. He said, “I want you to come along,” -- well, that's when I had Mike Douglas--

we had our pictures made -- a lot of celebrities came, and he was one of 'em. I was surprised to see sergeant over there. He looked at me, and he shook hands with me, and when he said, “can I fix you a bowl”? I said, “no, thank you 'cause,” I said, “I got to go on stage in a minute.” So, I didn't. We have not been friendly since the wedding episode.

In a way, people try to exploit your name, talent and popularity. I was knighted, as I got that picture, when we went to the Fillies Ball. And de [the] woman who was head of it -- organizing it -- she knew less about organizing how they should do queens and princesses and all that because it was already done for her before she got the job – but when she got the job, it went to her head. Giving orders to the princ—and the dignitaries who were there, too. And some of the dignitaries are knights and that - we were all supposed sit at two big tables they had and then they'd call us at a given time. We went outside in the hallway and we each paired up with a princess, or a queen, of the past. But she had a couple more knights than she had queens because there was [were] quite a few of the knights this time dere [there]. And she says, “this damn thing is buggin' me to death”. And the queen I was with was one of the early queens back many years ago. And she says,” Frances, you know what- why did you take this damn job? Just to get your damn picture and everything in the magazine?” She says, “you go to hell [chuckles].” And I says, “well, those are my sentiments, too, 'cause she had everybody on edge.

So, the parade [started] and then they made me about 4th or 5th, and she said, “why don't you

go back to the back of the line?” I says, “why?” She says, “well, these newer guys that

went in since you were in,” -- says, dey [they] don't know dem [them] like you--- everybody here knows you.” And I said, “no, not everybody because I met some people today, I didn't know. I wasn't here last year for the queen's crowning and she's sittin' with me,” but she didn't know that. But I knew it 'cause she wore her crown, and I expected I'd be able to take her down the aisle and up on stage. She didn't do it that ... And I told my queen that I escorted, I said, “I believe she got peeved at me.” And I said, “to hell with -- .” So, my sentiments are the same ones.

This happened this Saturday night -- this year. But I'll continue to support the Fillies Ball. The Thoroughbreds put it on. It's a Kentucky Derby Festival event. The Thoroughbreds is a branch of it - a committee - and you join that - there's 500-600 of 'em. And theirs is the main project - they got projects -- everybody's designated to a chairmanship. And for years, I had the pins when they first come [came] out with the pins. And for years, I was marketing the pins, at the banks and all that. The Pegasus Pin. It does take a lot of time but, I managed to delegate to certain people that take - that way I wouldn't have to go to too many of 'em – I had about 6 or 7 henchmen that would go to the banks and grocery stores and filling stations and drug stores.

I was not the first chairman of the pin commiittee. The lady that I escorted the queen -- she was -- that was it. The pins have been sold, I'd say, 25 years. Lydia has collected quite a few through the years.

Here's Kris Kristofferson [showing a picture]. And that's his partner and road manager. And that's Lulu Belle. And that's Roy Acuff. And that's his side kick Oswald. This was taken backstage in his dressin' room at the Opry. That's Oswald--he's his right-hand man - plays the dobro. This is Acuff's own private dressing room. That's just for him. He's got lots of memorabilia on the walls. But they

all stop by -- his is the first dressing room when you go on the stage.

And dis was taken at the Abrams festival. That was in '76. Now this was '88 with Brother Oswald. [chuckles] She wanted me to take a picture of her and I did--- that's Loretta. She gave me that damn zebra outfit [chuckles]. Here's de [the] other one - the other sister--Crystal Gayle -- opening at Kingdom park out there. That was opening day - we were--. That doesn't look like Crystal Gayle but that was her. That's '88 (??) -- couple of snapshots.

This is one of my favorite DJ's -- he's up in Buffalo, New York. He's been here many times. He's been on 'TV and The Grand Ole Opry, too. And that’s John Hobbs' place when he was president of the [Nashville] Merchants Association. That's the show we put on for 'em -- that: was in Nashville. [all pictures] And Minnie Pearl.

Minnie won't be there next Friday. She can't make it but we're going down. We've got to -- I got called - the producer/director for the music and everything they have to have - we're gonna do a medley of songs for her. She's in the chair and I don't think they can get her out there for it. So, the prognosis is not good. I hope to see her again. I'll make it sometime when she's back in the hospital when I know it's desperate. Not at home I wouldn't go by the house. She's not having anyone in. Nobody! Henry her husband is there with her, and then nurses [are] there 24 hours a day.

This picture was taken, I believe, in one of the dressin' rooms. It's not dated on the back. There's nothin' on it. That's her picture - probably in Roy Acuff's dressin' room.

The man calls that the Walk of Fame -- somethin' like that - handprints of the stars, and footprints of the stars. He was imitating the same sort of thing in Hollywood or in Nashville, too. They got a walkway there [in Nashville].

Here's the Bill Haley writeup - Bill Haley and Jolly Joyce and Philadelphia, and how he got the music and did "Blackboy Jungle" and they called that "Rock Around the Clock" and the movie. And they don't say that – Jolly Joyce -- he had just played the part the Sunday before that. And then he wanted to book me out overseas and I wouldn't go. [Looking over memorabilia] “There was a

succession of small hits until Pee Wee scored a number one country smash in ’51 with "Slow Poke."” “Everything was going well for Pee Wee until the first rumblings of rock 'n' roll. Pee Wee had met Bill Haley while the latter was playing one of the lowlife bars along the Jersey shoreline. King admired Haley's style." [reading]

I did. “As well he might since it was basically his own. From the start, there was no doubt that Haley's music owed a big debt to King in terms of instrumentation and overall feel -- a debt made obvious on some of the more obscure cuts like “Hey Then,” “There Now” from the Stageshow album.

After Haley became established, his booking agent Jolly Joyce approached King with the idea of booking the Golden West Cowboys overseas as a rock 'n' roll act. One of the provisos was that King would have to change the name of his band just as Haley had done." I said, “bullshit! I worked

this hard to get here -- what the hell am I goin' to go to rock 'n' roll for!”

But we could of [have] played the song in the movie and got the recognition but it didn’t fit. He wasn't a rock 'n' roller. He played a tune that demanded rock 'n' roll, but I could play rock 'n' roll the same thing - I had to. This album was manufactured in England. It says April, 1990. The other one was Baldwin and King - that's it -- they had two issues of it.

So, Bill Haley had a Western band. He gave me credit for influencing his style. We stayed friends for a long time. Our paths crossed quite often after that, 'cause I played all [of those] 'em parks up East, along the Jersey shore. See, for him, the bars was [were] his nucleus of operation to keep the band together. Bill Haley died recently. He wasn't that young when he died. Buddy Holly was big - so was Bill Haley.

The musician's magazine a very important groups (??) in bands. Many times, not many stars with agencies [did] air travel, they were out of reach. Canadian situations—touring the groups - important. Musicians' union comes in handy (??) , including lots of times you have to work Canada .... I was just readin' that - this is a regular musicians' magazine that comes out every month. But I was takin' some of the excerpts from that ... Oh, here's one, too - they call me a jazz accordionist [chuckles].

[Reading] "The seeds of rock 'n' roll were developing long before Elvis Presley stumbled upon them. In Memphis, on June 6, 1954, the music he discovered which some called 'rockabilly' had been around since the 1940s under the name Country-Boogie. The music that spawned Country-Boogie was Western Swing, a musical form that fused country, jazz, blues, and pop styles and pioneered the use of amplified instruments. Without the pioneers of Western Swing, there may not have been an Elvis Presley."

A lot of music critics are giving me some credit, for my influence on the later superstars like

Elvis, Bill Haley and--. See, not bein' a singer [Elvis]-- that made a big difference. But see, with Bill Haley, he was not much of a singer either. And by that, it took a band to make the music -just like it does rock 'n' roll - it takes electric guitars and all that.

I was referred to as a jazz accordionist and I don't think that's right. The

best accordionist in the world was Art Van Dam (??). He was a creator and innovator and a .... Now, see this, goes to show you, whenever I was gonna go on a tour, and people wondered why I still dressed Western and played the ballrooms as much as we did, but in the territory -- every territory - they've got their own type of music. And that was one of the first questions I asked Wayne King when I said somethin' about, “how do you play the style of waltzes when you play New York?” He

says, “the way I do every day.” But, he says, “when I play the Midwest, I play the waltzes with a[n] uptempo [up-tempo] beat.” And he says, “how you find that out is you watch the feet and set the beat. Watch the feet and set the beat.”

That's the back cover of an album. The Ballroom King. Hank Benny’s (??), Spade Cooley, Johnny Lee Wills -- now Johnny Lee Wills for my money was the first rock 'n' roll Country-Western Swing [artist] because he wrote a tune called ....

I mixed a lot of traditions in my music - crossovers and things - Western, Country, Swing, Pop. As an entertainer, that's the one thing I always said, “I can't get out of entertainment in some fashion, I'll be in it because I think you gotta believe that you can cross over,” -- you gotta believe you can go to the Midwest and play the Polka dances. I went down to Baton Rouge for the big rodeo down there in the Rodeo Days and played Cajun music. It was "Jolie Blonde" several times, but then I interspersed it with polkas-- the two step - all it was. And theywhooped [they whooped] and hollered and yelled –“aieeee!” You could hear it all over the place.

So, I could adapt to wherever I was playing, around the country. When you get to California, it's different. That's right up their alley - Western Swing – Spade Cooley, Tex Williams, Merle Travis, those people -- they were beginners - that's where it started. The musicians' union was very important in the earlier days of our playing different places - the parks, the picnics, the ballrooms, the movies, -- because you could rely on the musicians' union bail[ing] you out or if a check bounced and you try to get your money back, they'd act on that right away. They would call a local down there and say, “one of our boys played Miami and he got a bad check -- get your lawyer to go down there and go tell 'em to scare ‘em.”

This is a national -- international - local. We're part of it. We have a national office in New York (??). But that's a musician's union generally. I don't know who's [whose] president now -I hate to say--I've lost track of it because I'm not that busy anymore. If I had played Miami and had been given a bad check, I would contact my local here. And then they would contact the local down there. So, this wouldn't go through the New York office necessarily. No because -- see, we were a specialty act. And they had different people for specialty acts. Now if we were a big orchestra, it'll be different. Tommy Dorsey or Jan Garber or somebody like dat [that] – dey [they] would immediately hop on that project and say, “look, Jan Garber's filled [fulfilled] his obligation and he didn't get paid - how 'bout it?”

A specialty act was a group. In other words, I wasn't considered a big band. I thought I was a big band. At one time, when you take 12 people on the road, and play the type of music we do, we figured we were a big-time band. But specialty meant you had a tighter focus and smaller number - very close knit. Some of those bands would have 30 or 40 people -- big bands. Woody Herman - his band was called “The Thundering Herd,” he'd have about 25-30 people. Well, Fred Waring and his 50-piece band. So, in that sense, we were a smaller group - a specialty act. The musicians' union at that time catered to the big band because the big band--they were always it. And I came off as a side dish. They had the main ingredients.

In 1980, I was inducted into the wax museum. Mr. Hobbs was the owner. Barbara Mandrell and WABC New York, the same year. And Marty Robbins. King Country PBS--we auditioned for "Austin City Limits." And PBS carries it -- they were the main show for the PBS network. And Bob Edwards is a very nice man - he's a Louisville native- and he was the one who recommended me for "Austin City Limits." So, we cut a half hour ''King Country" -- but I was sick then -- that's when [things were] -- very bad. I've been on "Austin City Limits" a couple of times. That's taped in Austin, Texas.

Marty Robbins, Stella Parton I couldn't get Dolly Parton for a show, so I took Stella instead. Stella's her sister - she's the crazy girl with the hats on. She changes hats in the middle of a song [chuckles]. For mood music. There are just the two Parton sisters, who perform -- I don't know how big her family is.

Marty Robbins was a gentleman - the best. To my estimation, he'd come next to Eddy Arnold. He was that kind of a performer. He was from out West. I tink [think] he's from Phoenix, Arizona. I think that's where they found 'im [him]. He really was a trooper. And he kind of made love to the audience. He knew how to endear himself to- the people -- right away. He made friends with 'em right at the beginning of the show. And that's very important.

Country and Western entertainers are maybe better at relating to their audiences--they have an intimacy with their audiences probably more so than other kinds of entertainers. The others are vaudeville – classify [classified as] comics and people like Johnny Carson and that -- that's vaudeville to me -- Jackie Gleason - see those people do it that way. And we do it in our way, and we feel like we're home folks--that's what they call ya [you]. And nobody ever feels he can warm up to Johnny Carson, Jackie Gleason, or Jack Benny - you can't warm up to them. And that accounts for the

intimacy between the performer and the audience. How many top performers would go out to somebody's house after their show and have supper with 'em or else they bring picnic baskets and have a picnic on the grounds? That happens a lot of times – at festivals especially. I know it happened until recently because I haven't been on the road that much anymore.

I have gone home and eaten with fans. And then we'd come by and I'd drop a note probably -"How's little Elizabeth -- she was very ill when I was there last time -- comin' thru [through] here--we'll probably see ya [you] on our way -- stop off and say hello, "and stuff like that. So, I'd get to know particular people in places where I played. I never spent the night with any of my friends or fans. See, we had a schedule all the time, and if you broke that pattern, you never knew when you were on call. And I wouldn’t do it den [then], and the boys wouldn't do it either. That was our hotel and our motel, and we stayed usually at the Holiday Inn - in case we got any emergency calls -- if it wasn’t for me, it might be for Chuck, it might be for Jack, it might be for Redd - you don't know who the call might be for -but they know what hotel you're at. 24 hours a day. So, they'd know to look for us, say at the Holiday Inn in Mattoon, Illinois, 'cause that's where we normally stay.

Sometimes on the marquee it would say ''Welcome Pee Wee King," so I couldn't hide. I'd call ahead and ask, “do you put the name on the marquee?” I do my own PR work [chuckles]. I wanted the name there because I would be playing locally, so people in town would know I was playing somewhere around there, at that time. So that wasn't accidental -- I learned that from a good man - my father-in-law. He knew how to pull out all the stops. He was a promoter.

[The] Smithsonian Institution [Institute] appearance in '81. April of '81. I bought a little souvenir book. 1981 and that's the show I put on. This was a Smithsonian's American Country Music Series with Patsy Montana, Pee Wee King, and Redd Stewart. And this was in the Baird Auditorium at the National Museum of National History at the Smithsonian in Washington. I happened to be selected for this when this manager come [came] by and see [saw] me when I was playin' up in -- right out of Washington – Vienna [Virginia] - and he was the main honcho, and he says, “how'd you like to come to the Smithsonian Institute?” So, I said, “sure would - I'd love to.”

And it just so happened - three or four months later - we were playin' that same neighborhood and I found out Johnny Hartford - John Hartford was at the Smithsonian- and I didn't have nothin' [anything] to do that night so I went to see Hartford's show. And then I met Betsy (??)-- boy, he had a lot of contracts to (??) sign (??). But anyhow, the next time we went (??) - we were at a-CMA-and Country Music Association was having a meeting, in Washington, so C&R (??) went to Smithsonian and talked to Betsey and Betsy had a baby. So that still came on the correspondence.

We did a regular stage show at the Smithsonian. I had Jack Hamlet's band – I was without a band that particular show. I didn't want take [a band] because I didn't want to charge that much money. So, I took the nucleus of our group and hired a local band, Patsy Montana, myself and Redd and the Collins Sisters. We did a concert. I was the emcee. I don't have a copy of the program; it would vary anyhow 'cause you'd get a different type of an audience seated down like that. And I pulled a boo-boo --tryin' to remember what the boo-boo was -- about elephants - somethin' about trees and elephants - elephant trunks and tree trunks and everything. Oh, and then the worst part of it was there was a fight in the cafeteria at the Smithsonian. One of the colored people -- black people - the cook and the head waiter - black waiter over the black waitresses - they had white waitresses, too. And the fella that was cookin’ came out with a knife and chasin' this one colored guy all over the place. Finally, somebody from the lobby stopped a cop comin' up the street, and then he called [the] police and they arrested both of 'em. And I says, “ladies and gentlemen, there's no charge

for the floor show you just saw downstairs [chuckles].” I said, “but we hate to follow an act like that -- that's pretty desperate.” That's what it was -- follow an act like that. They had already upstaged us.

We a full house. Every one of the country music series was filled -- Kitty Wells played it, Glenn Campbell played it, Johnny Hartford -- he does a hell of a job as a single don't [doesn’t] need anybody [anyone]! It was a summer series -- it went all 13 weeks. I think all of the performances were filmed for the archives there. That really is a sign that you have arrived - that you are already legendary status - when you're invited by the Smithsonian to perform. It's an honor. And the friendship that went with it -- that's what I appreciated, too, because usually artists -- some of 'em -- won't give you the time of day. They work a joint and they go out and that's it. But I never felt that way. Take your money and run -that's a pet expression.

I remember what we performed at the Smithsonian - "Slow Poke," "Tennessee Waltz," "You Belong to Me," "Bonaparte's Retreat" and a polka, and then the girls danced to "Don't Fence Me In" and then we did a couple of others - "Hey Good Lookin'” and Patsy went through her stuff, which is "I Want to be a Cowboy's Sweetheart" and "Shebeo"(??) and all that sort. It made for a good package. And the audience was responsive, and we signed autographs 'cause each one got a program. As they come [came] in, they'd give you a program. This is what they got.

Patsy Montana is livin' in California now. And I tell ya [you] - that girl amazes me -she can go to Europe and spend a month and never check in a hotel anywhere because she goes to people who know her. She spends a week with them sometimes. I couldn't do that. She's from Arkansas, not out West, as you might expect with a name like that. Redd Stewart was born in Ashland City, Tennessee -- that's how come he got "Tennessee Waltz." [chuckles]

We had one performance at the Smithsonian -- one evening. But I stayed up in the territory - I must have played a coupla [couple of] other dates because I had that check. I used Hamlet's band for a week. Hamlet was a guy who worked one of the parks up dere [there] with me, and he was so good that I told 'im [him] that he might as well come and work dis [this] gig with me, too-it's easy.

When you pick up a band, it's not hard to meld with the band the first time because they' re, familiar with our stuff and I know they' re capable of learning it fast enough if we send 'em a record or an album, and they can copy it. Maybe they don't read music, but they can learn it as close as we need it -- they can get our sound -our style from the recording. But they've got to be professional. This is another advantage of the musicians' union - you know if you get somebody, he's going to be a professional. He's going to be there when he says and that he's going to be a good musician. He's got to be a good musician to be in the union, or they'd drop him from the union.

See, a lot of those now in rock 'n' roll roll—they can’t nothing [anything] but rock 'n' roll. And you can’t write rock ‘n’ roll music—you got to copy it off a record! But, they can get in the union. And now they can get in -- even if they're no good, they can get in the union 'cause they got a really have people - the unions are hurtin'. The membership of the musicians' union is way down. That's because there's not as much demand for music as there was before - years ago. That is, live music performances. Everything is taped and ... that's the reason [James] Petrillo called the strike back in the '40s. No more records for a while - no show act you couldn't buy – you couldn't make a record. And that was to give work to the musicians—live performances. And see, that's where it all started....

I did a show with Boxcar Willie, down on Bardstown Road in '81. I still must

have the picture in the paper, I guess, with that. But Boxcar Willie is one the -- see, when I played Omaha-- in dat [that] area - he was a disc jockey at the radio station in Omaha. So, in order for me to be on the air with the most important disc jockey of the territory, I had to be up at 5 o'clock and be in the radio station at 5:30 and go on the air with Boxcar Willie. But that wasn't his name. His name was Travis - Travis somepin [something] -- but anyhow, at that hour of the mornin' , you got to punch a regular bell - have somebody from the inside come and open the door. 'Cause he opened the station. So I was out there -- cold as can be - and I kept punchin' the button. And finally -- there wasn't a window around -- he was in an enclosure disc jockeys are -- and then finally, he remembered I was comin' in.

I got there early so we could talk and discuss what we're gonna talk about, and I was just about frozen by the time he got to me [chuckles]. He said, “I didn't think you'd show up.” He said, “because 90 percent of those stars that come to me - and I tell 'em what time I want to be on the air -- they don't want to come that early -- they want to try somethin' after my time is up. And I'm usually through by 9 or 10 o'clock.” And I said, “no, I want you!” And he says, “I have never forgotten that.” And he says, “when I come to Louisville, you're the first guy - I call the union add [and] say, “how do I

get hold of Pee Wee King?”” At that time, he was not so famous, but he is now. He bought a place in Branson, Missouri and paid it off in one year. He was one of the first to go there.

Ed McMahon - Johnny Carson's sidekick. St. Patrick's Parade - we went out. He and I both did it together, here in Louisville. And then we went out to dinner with his wife and her girlfriend and Bob Ryan and his wife and Lydia and I --we went to a St. Patrick's party. Bob Ryan had a Murphy's on Broadway -- that's where we were. They hired a disc jockey who plays recorded music to entertain us [chuckles]. And McMahon says, “how de [the] hell he can do that?” He says, “Pee Wee, don't you dislike that?” I said, “I sure dislike it butthere's [but there’s] nothin' I can do about it. The man has worked hard, got 'im [him] a job, got somethin' goin' for 'im [him], plays our records -- I can't help it/ - I ain't [am not] gonna put 'im [him] down.”

Ed McMahon is Irish but I'm not. I was in the parade with Bob Ryan. See, when you ride with Ryan, they got that Cadillac and the big seat on the back of it--and the names are all over the place. I guess on St. Patrick's Day everybody is Irish-- even Poles' [chuckles]. Let's see -- what the heck did I call myself? O'King or somethin' like that'

In 1982, Charlie Adams died. Charlie Adams was my partner in the publishing company in California called Ridgeway Music, and ASCAP [American Association of Composers, Authors, and Publishers] firm was [and] Longview. And Mr. Frank and I and Charlie and Redd started the Ridgeway Music. He was working for Fred MacMurray, the movie star -- runnin' his publishing company for 'im [him]. And he said, “I'll take the job on one condition that I can still run out my services with Fred MacMurray and I can devote all my time because starting a publishing company takes a long time to get your feet wet. If you're gonna get into the pool, you'd better get wet right away.” And that's what I did with Fred MacMurray-- he was workin' for him. So, we took over the Fred MacMurray office and everything, and Fred MacMurray didn't want a publishing company no more [anymore]. And he just devoted his time to ours.

Fred MacMurray's publishing company was for songs in pictures. In other words, he discovered that they got to do a song - a certain type -he would find somebody that could service 'im [him] and then he'd put it in his publishing company. That was a sideline. He played saxophone -- MacMurray. He was a good actor. I met him with his other partner -- Herb Montei. And he was longhair - classical music man. But we were a gruesome foursome when we got together [chuckles].

Adams was more of a yes man than he was anything else. The reason I say that is towards the end, when I was told by my RCA Victor A & R man - recording director he said, “why don't you just forget about bein' a publisher and stick with what you know best?” He says, “you’re an entertainer -- you're an entertainer now - you always will be. Forget about the publishing - Charlie's doin' a good job for you.” And the followin' year, Charlie jumped from the small publishing company to the big one. He

was tryin' to be on the same level as some of theguys [the guys] that were already well-established, - like the Irving Berlins and the Goodman Brothers-- - Harry Goodman and Benny (??) Goodman and all that. And he was pumpin' the handle two times – more than he should have. And unfortunately, why our guarantee was off with BMI [Broadcast Music, Inc], and Mr. Havingus (??) said, “I tell ya [you] what we're gonna do, Pee Wee.” He says, “we're gonna ask you to move your publishin' [publishing] company to Kentucky where you can keep an eye on it and find you a new partner.”

In the meantime, I said, “no, I'd rather sell it.” Mr. Burton called me aside, and he said, “I’ll tell you what -- Gene Autry' s a good friend of yours - I'm gonna see Autry in a couple of weeks -- I got some bidness [business] to talk to 'im [him about].” He says, “you want me to mention that the publishing company's for sale?” I said, “I already offered it to Lawrence Welk.” And he said, “well, I don't tink [think] you'll hear from Welk.” He said, “Welk is awful tight with money -- he won't give you what I think it's worth - a small a company as you are.”

So, he talked to Gene and Gene called me Tanksgivin' [Thanksgiving] night, and we was [were] havin' all the kids over here, and he says, “well, say hello to all your family, but I want to ask you somethin' --why in the hell didn't you ask me to buy the company?” I said, “I didn't think you wanted it.” He said, “what does it say on the stationery? Gene Autry Music Publishing Group." So, I says, “ok.” He says, “I just talked to Charlie and told 'im [him] I'm gonna call you. If you're ready for it, I'll make the deal with Charlie -- and Charlie goes with it - ~ Charlie'll work for me -- no longer for you.

And what he did [was] he hired him to run his recording studio. And he started [started] a new record company- Republic Records. Dis [This] was right up Charlie's alley, 'cause he wanted to travel all the time— and he was Jan Garber' s road manager. So, he liked to travel. And that’s how come he-Gene bought the companies -- and bought both the BMI and ASCAP. That was before Charlie died in '82. We started in '52. It was Ridgeway and Longview.

We started the publishing [companies] because we were writin' [writing] songs like crazy and givin' 'em to Acuff-Rose. We could of [could’ve] had that. We wanted to publish our own songs, but we published other people, too. Well, I didn't as much as - we looked for people, but you spend more time listenin' [listening] to tapes or listenin' [listening] to demos den [than] it's actually- that wasn't my type of work. It was all supposed to go to Charlie. But he would take some junk and crap and everything and it just didn’t pay off. He was the yes man [chuckles] - he couldn't say no. And he was the yes man with Autry, too, and Autry liked that. But he learned some pretty good stuff from Gene.

In June of '82, Hall of Famers Show in Nashville. Big crowd at the fairgrounds. Bill Walker's Orchestra. Eddy emceed that show, and we filmed it. They filmed it for posterity. Dis [This] one wasn't for commercial reasons -- we got paid but it wasn't as an appearance. We did it for the archives of Country Music. It was broadcast live.

And then the Western Film Festival in Charlotte, North Carolina, That's where I get to meet guys like George Montgomery, Lash Larue and all the oldtimers [old-timers] -- they all show up in Western festivals. It was an annual festival -- they have discontinued it-- tried to move it to Raleigh and it didn't go there. They tried to move it to Knoxville---- didn't go there because the biggest one is in Memphis. And I've never been to a Memphis Western Film Festival.

And see, you get a chance to show your pictures-- your movies. All different hours - they give you a schedule. I see Lash Larue, I see Gene Autry, I see [the] George Montgomery picture and everything.

In August of '82, I was at the Mountain Festival at Hiawassee, Georgia. Beautiful! Beautiful setting on top of a mountain, and they've got all of the facilities - it's like a theater - outdoor theater. And they bring in acts every week, and they'll have anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 people in attendance for the weekend. They have country music group from Nashville or other cities that [where] famous acts live. They bring 'em in from Atlanta – dose [those] boys down there are religious -- very religious minded. And den dey [then they] have like on a Friday, we'd have a country-Western show; and on a Saturday, they'd have the variety show; and on a Sunday, dey’d [they’d] have gospel songs. It's a beautiful mountain festival -- I wish we could go back again. I don't know if it's still operating.

In '83, this was the big homecoming in Abrams. There's a tape of this event. It was a homecoming for me. That came about because I knew everybody dere [there] in Abrams. My mother and dad lived there. And they were tryin' to organize some kind of a festival that would draw people and be recognized on radio, television - and exposed to it - and get the publicity that would draw people from as far as Green Bay. And as far as northern Wisconsin.

So, one of my uncles - the oldest one of the two of my mother's brothers – he was the one who got me interested in Country music - he has Gene Autry books and all that. So, he talked to them. He says, “why don't we get my nephew over here?” They said, “Who's your nephew?” He said,” Pee Wee King.” They said, “you're kiddin' – you could get him?” He said, “yeah.” So that broke the ice right there.

So, they were raisin' [raising] money for--to build a new town hall. The old town hall was just about kaput. But it would seat about 200-300. So, we put on a show for 'em and then the parade. And then the big surprise came when I got the plaque. And dat's [that’s] how they got the plaque put up for me at the park. They unveiled it while I was there. That was quite a treat being recognized in – my own hometown, by your own people- there was a sign saying "Welcome Pee Wee King." And Green Bay television and radio, and [the] O'Connell (??) newspaper, [the] Pulaski newspaper, [and the] Suamico- quite a bit. And then a lot of old friends--real old people that knew my mother and dad -- they were pleasantly surprisin’ [surprising] us.

I recognized a lot of people there by name 'cause most of dese [these] people – their sons and that had gone away to Chicago to work - or go [went] somewhere - Green Bay at the packing houses and that way. Some guy slapped me on the back, and I liked to break my shoulder and I'd look up - I'd say, “now who are you?” He says, “well, you don't know me - I was a little boy but you used to run around with my brother and sister all the time.” So, I'd know the family names and some of their kinfolks -- older ones. See, they'd be about 75, 80, 85 years old now.

I have relatives still living in the Abrams area. I got one aunt – no wait a while (??), she died, and my mother's other sister passed away. I had two of 'em in a nursin' [nursing] home livin’ [living] up dere [there] at O'Connell Falls. My Aunt Stella, which was my mother’s younger sister, and my Aunt Anna -- she was a vegetable - and she'd be 90-some years old now - but she died. Then I had my mother's younger brother -- dey was [they were] married and lived in Pulaski.

And den [then] my dad's family – dey [they] lived in the Suamico area - there was about 3 or 4 of

'em. And dey [they] went under the name of Kuczynski, so they came to the homecoming. It was a lot of fun.

There is no home dere [there] now -- it's sold - it's gone. I feel at home when I go up there because I got cousins that still - well, the guy that put part of the show -the parade and that and got the floats together -- organizing it - he owned the Candleglow Inn. And there was the sign: "Candleglow Tonight - Pee Wee King Night."

Everytime [every time] I came home, that was it. And he had a fine accordion player with a Cordovox and that's what I played, too, so when he played the Cordovox -- this fella that he hired - I'd take his accordion - he had his accordion with 'im [him] if he needed it. And we'd play duets together and just whoop and holler and have fun--- and the big supper dat [that] night, too.

It was just a one-day festival. It was exciting, and we showed some of the tapes that we had made for different shows and put 'em on television on a nine-foot screen 'cause he had one of the -- in fact, Paul Hornung (??) used to go up there - his girl--friends - and have a few drinks md or somepin [something] to eat. Always went up dere [there] 'cause he liked it. He liked [the] Candleglow Inn restaurant at Abrams. He and Bart Starr at one time were lookin' at a place right out of Little Suamico (??)--a football boys' camp - teachin' de [teaching the] boys how to play football. And then somepin [something] went sour on Bart Starr's part 'cause he said he'd build it up and then he said, “both of us could leave here anyhow all right after we [were] through playin' football.” He said, “I don't want to live here.” And Paul said, “neither do I.” So, they gave it up. And Bart Starr went into the car business.

In '84, [the] Country Music Foundation [had an] MTS promo. We had the meeting to go to Boston, like we do to go exploit the different towns. Come to Nashville, come to de [the] museum and the

Hall of Fame.

And then I did the show on "Austin City Limits." Pittsburgh - Blue Ridge Roys there we worked at Pittsburgh Gardens - that was a big one. And we played Stamford, Connecticut. The Jim Henckel (??) Show/he's a promoter up dere [there]. The Oldtimers Reunion Show at the Grand Ole Opry - we usexd [used] to take one Saturday night in the year and call in all [of the] former Grand Ole Opry people that no longer played on the Opry. And the first one we had, we had 31 of 'em. And this one probably, in 1984, I think we had about 11 or 12. And this last year we had - the 1991 reunion - I think we had 5. So that's how fast they die.

Meridian, Mississippi. That's [the] Jimmy Rodgers Festival, and we always work that. And [the]

Swiss Village Show - that's where Branson, Missouri. is now. Branson, Missouri has become -- it's a beautiful spot in the mountains and a big resort area. And they start[ed] building-- first they built a big arena - amphitheater - outdoor - for summer plays that would come through - to break their jump - big Broadway shows that stop dere [there] and put on a show because they had all the facilities and the seating capacity – a beautiful setup.

And some guy got the wild idea he's gonna build a golf course there. And another one got the idea to build a theater there. Den dey [Then they] started a couple of little-bitty-- Ozark Mountain Jubilee was being held there -- and then it just blossomed. Then some of the Grand Ole Opry people who didn't want to go on the road anymore - built a theater -- built an auditorium. Everybody’s got their own little plot of ground and they show 'em there. Many of them live there. Johnny Cash is goin' in there now - he's got a home. So does Roy Clark, Boxcar Willie, Shotgun Red - he's with, oh [the] emcee - the one who got the book - Ralph Emery - he's [Shotgun Red] with the dummy. And Mickey Gilley is there, Danny Davis and his Orchestra - they're there now. And they attract people from all over the country who come there for the music. For the music and entertainment - you never want for a place to go because you go see the show and then you go out to supper clubs if you want –they got fishin’ [fishing], huntin’ [hunting]—they[‘ve] got everything right in the mountains - Ozark Mountains. And they[‘ve] got hotels and motels and lodges and things for the public to stay in. Roy Clark built a big hotel - his own hotel.

In '85, Al Walchter (??) died - that's my son-in-law's father. We went to visit 'im [him] while he was in Florida, and they brought him home and he passed away. And then the McDonalds Restaurant deal-in Atlanta--that was one of the biggest dates I've played in my life. McDonald’s was usin' [using] a celebration for the - I forget – the 2,000th McDonald’s franchise. And it happened to be one right out of Atlanta – a little town out[side] of Atlanta. So, they were gonna honor this particular person and all [of the] area McDonalds and that. So, they hired me. I got to be friends with some guys down dere [there] and somebody suggested that the Chicago office contact me in Louisville here and put my band to work. The only trouble was I-had only six people in the band at that time. And he called me, says, “can you play Lawrence Welk style music or Wayne King?” I says, “sure.” And they called the union - see, that's where the union came in handy. And I had to hire two saxophones, trombone, trumpet and augment my band to it - and then (??) and then, funny part about it was, he said, “l didn't realize when I put the circulars that music was bein' played by Pee Wee King and his Orchestra [chuckles]. That[‘s] my Iowa people, my Nebraska people, my Missouri people, my Illinois people.” He says, “you couldn't ask for ... why, do you know him?” He says, “why, do we know 'im [him] - you're kiddin' - he played our fair or with it.” He said, “I didn't know -- I thought you just – [a] TV, guy, that's it.”

So, I started out with "Sentimental Journey" and then I got a little faster and faster. And I said, “for the folks upstairs from wherever you are, as you know, I love to play polkas. So how many want to hear a polka?” Man - they was [were]. . . We had 5,000 people dancin' the polka! That was at the big hotel down there - the Hyatt Regency in Atlanta. That's where they had the big celebration for McDonald's. And it was carved like the golden arches - they were golden arches that you come through into the ballroom--made outta [out of] ice. Oh, .... It was open to all the franchises -no public. Franchise people from all over the country. This wasn't broadcast; it was a private party.

And I still correspond with 'em. It was the biggest to me, as far as - you couldn't ask for a bigger deal! And like he said, he said, “the one thing that's a (??) - you fooled me,” - he said, “when you guys were rehearsin' [rehearsing] and settin' [setting] up your music.” He said, “I didn't tink [think] you were well-organized. And then when I found out that you had to hire these extra musicians,” he said, “I started thinkin' to myself, well maybe he isn't so dumb after all.” He says, “your band sounds as good as any big orchestra we [ever] had.” I was~ tryin' to think of one-- - he mentioned theguy's [the guys]

name the year before that -- they hired him somewhere else up in the Western part of the country - and he couldn't play doodley-squat for 'em - he didn't please the audience at all. He said, “to be bold (??), he didn't have about 300--400 _people.” And he said, “look at 'em tonight.” Their national meetings are held in different cities but this one was in Atlanta. Dis [This] was for a special event - like 2,000dth [2,00th] franchise or somethin' like that. So, it was a really big, big deal. 5,000 people - all franchises.

In Pennsylvania, the Masonic Theater. We played it for the Masons. Rodger (??) Theater. Two shows. Shorty Longman - he died, too. And Kitty Wells Show - sold out – that was in Reading, Pennsylvania. And that's when they broke in[to] our car and stole all the instruments.

Blacks don't take to Country or Western music much because they have their own. It's always been that way. See, Country Music, or Western music, is of the plains, the sky and the stars and horses and ranches and all that. Hillbilly music is the Virginias--West Virginia -- the mountainous people. Down South they have their own--blues is what they call it. Memphis was the home of the blues at one time – New Orleans was the home of the blues. And jazz. So, they had all they could handle by bein' [being] entertained by their people (??) But slow but sure [slowly but surely], they finally found out -- I would say Hank Williams in a roundabout way would be the closest to what they would like because he had the blues type of stuff dat [that] they wanted to hear.

And one of the first big ones was Charley Pride. And there was a coupla [couple of] others beside[s] him that starts getting notice and start[s] hearin' [hearing] records that they were [also] country, too. I got one - I was talkin' for a long time - Doug Stone. And he dropped out of the picture--he couldn't stand the gap. He thought he could be another Charley Pride, but he'd always slip into that blues stuff, and they just wouldn’t take to it.

There are not a lot of black fans of Country music, but we used to have a lot of black people used to come to our stage show - locally – herein [here in] Louisville. And invite 'em to the park o'er [over] at Fontaine Ferry Park for Pee Wee King Day or somepin [something] like that (??) But you don't see many blacks in the audiences of the Country music shows. [The] Philip Morris Show - that's a good example - you don't find many there. You don’t find many at the Grand Ole Opry - a few—now--- they come in for curiosity. But it's not their kind of music as a rule. They've got blues, jazz,

gospel – they[‘ve] got good gospel - that's the way I'd explain it - the only way I could figure it.

Country music has traditionally appealed to poorer whites - country whites. And there was always a kind of competition between country whites and blacks. They were competing for the same work and same money. And they simply didn't see themselves as liking the same things, I guess. So, there may have been a little bit of racial discrimination and animosity.

Now in the pop music bidxness [business], it was different because you had guys like Sammy Davis, Johnny Mathis, Flip Wilson the comic -- and people like that - they made it. But the transition was [a] long [time] coming. Let's face it - talkin' about the blacks--the first jockeys we had were black.

But Charley Pride, is the only black artist most people can name right now. I don't know how many there are -- blacks [black] artists -- in the field. I don't really know of any other big ones. Charley Pride made it big because he's got the type of charm that endears [him] right off the start. When he meets you, you're always a good friend of his. But he's playing for white audiences predominantly. Very few blacks buy his records. His material is pretty choosy, too. And he's a good golfer - they invite him to all the golf tournaments.

O.B. McClinton died. He worked with us right here in Louisville. At the fair. He was a Mississippi boy, and he made a name for himself with a coupla [couple of] good records, and then he got cancer and passed away. DeFord Bailey was a little-bitty black harmonica player. He worked on the Grand Ole Opry - he was the first one. The first black one on the Grand Ole Opry. Cleve Francis - I don't know that name. But most of them didn't have staying power in Country music. And I guess, if they were playing for blacks - their own people -- they would have chosen some other kind of music. Like I say, it's the only way I could figure it out. And if you play the song[s] that colored people enjoy and

made popular, they'd probably listen to you, but they wouldn't pay to see you.

I remember I talked with the Philip Morris people for the festival one year. I said, “why don't we do a salute to some of the orchestra leaders -- the Cab Calloways, and the Duke Ellingtons and Fats Domino and all that?” And [the] Philip Morris people said, “you mean you (??) guys play that music?” I said, “yes, sir, we're entertainers -- we're musicians.” He said, “I'll tell you what -- we'll go along with that idea.” He says, “what we'll do is we'll have a bigscreen [big screen] and we'll flash their picture on the screen, and you play their most popular song.” I says, “I'll go right along with ya [you].” And we worked it out.

And I was lookin' up the program I had - old program downstairs I was lookin' for some music to do May 17 at Lyndon and I found the program we did that particular night -- and Anne Murray was the special guest - so we did Fats Domino, Duke Ellington, Lionel Hampton, Cab Calloway - we didn't do Ray Charles – nobody can imitate Ray Charles -- just the band leaders -- the typical -- and put on a good show and interspersed it with the guests that were here, too.

So, Lydia and I are gonna go see the Oak Ridge Boys and the blind piano player--

Country music star—blind piano piano player—Ronnie Milsap-- the Philip Morris Show is April 30th. This Thursday night. That's their big show for the Derby Festival. I can't think of the blind pianist's name, but he's so good so great -- and doing what he's doing that when they introduce him, he walks out on the stage, and you wouldn't know he's blind. And says, “26 steps to your piano,” and then he feels it and sits down on the stool and then he gets up from it and he wants to go to the microphone and takes 7 steps - like there's the microphone. All [of] dis [this] is worked out ahead of time but the cutest ting [thing] of all is when they introduce him and he says, “I'd like to have you meet my boys in the band, everybody.” He says, “Fred, what are you doin' so dark up dere dey [there they] can't see --put a light on Fred so they see ‘im [him]. –I’m gonna introduce ya [you], Fred -- take a bow.” And people don't know [he chuckles] that he's lyin'.

Ronnie Milsap doesn't do the Grand Ole Opry. He's too big. He's on when they

do specials but he doesn't do it regularly. There are some guys and girls that leave the Grand Ole Opry in order to get bigger, because they're kind of tied down to it.

They have to perform there every Saturday if they're regulars. They pay 'em now -big money, too -- to be on the Opry. Union scale. The union says that they[‘ve] got to be paid any work -- anybody who appears on radio, television and got a promotion with it - they get paid.

... you know, “so why are you smilin' [smiling] now?” He says, “Hillbilly, I'll tell ya [you] why. I have become one of them. And we [are] payin' tribute to Jimmie Rodgers.” He says, “wipe the smile off [chuckles].”

Here was the Smith's Villa thing. It was the origination of Branson, Missouri. At Lampey [Lampe] Missouri. That's the first show they had. Here's Ed McMahon, his wife that he has divorced since then, at the St. Patrick's Parade here. His wife was very attractive - she looks like his daughter. These movie people--they marry so many times. They get a writeup in the paper that way. I guess that's the only reason. They get extra publicity in the tabloids.

Casts of his hands -- what exhibit calls "Celebrity Tracks in Time." [showing more memorabilia] We produced a television show for national network called “(??) Ranch.” “Seen here with Gene Autry and Pat Butram [Buttram]. Come out and see the show. The conversation between Pat and Gene will open the program. To end the show, we have (??). In talking with Gene about guests, he would like to have you on the show. He asked me to contact you right away to come down and spend most (??) [of] the day here to tape some of the shows.”

And here’s what happened, then he got Roy Rogers there on Saturdays. I always went there on a Monday. And Roy would stay there with Dale Saturday and Sunday, and then Monday he'd take me. We'd do the commercials and inserts and anything we wanted to do. And that was in 1987. And I said--is Frankie Marvin still alive? Frankie was a steel guitar player – that’s why we changed my name.

And this was the inauguration in '83 for Governor Martha Layne Collins. And dere [there] she was. And we played the thing for her. We played at the inauguration. And here's the band we had that played for her - it was somepin [something] else' I like Martha Layne Collins - she was out of this world. She was a good governor and a good person.

My work for politicians, besides in Florida, includes Louie Nunn and Mr. [Wendell] Ford and ... I campaigned when dey [they] called on us - like here we were down in Standard [Stanford] or near Lexington or Frankfort -- we'd go there and play for 'em - introduce 'em on a flatbed truck. And I'll never forget Wendell Ford -- he forgot how high a truck bed is off the ground, and the steps were behind us, so we came up the steps with the musical instruments. And den [then] introduced 'em - I said, “here's the next Governor of Kentucky-- the Honorable Wendell Ford.” And he came out there. And he finished he said, “I thank you, Pee Wee.” He says, “are you gonna play "My Old Kentucky Home" for me as I come off?” I said, “yes, I will, sir.” And we played ''My Old Kentucky Home" and instead of goin' to the steps, he jumped off the front -- and he stopped --and knees gave out on 'im [him]—and I jumped down off of there, too, -- I wasn't supposed to - I knew it would hurt but he was practically on the ground - I picked 'im [him] up. I says, “you all right, Governor?” He said, “no, not yet.” He said, “I feel like my ankles are embedded in the loafers. We're lucky it wasn't any worse—a broken leg or ankle!”

I've never had any broken bones. My shoulder - when I fell down - and I know [knew] that and went to the hotel management and I says, “when the people park down there,” I says, “I was on the end and dere's [there’s] no yellow mark and no chain there. I mean there's a chain there but there's no stop thing or what you call it.” And I went down- it was my sunglasses I was lookin' for -- I forgot my sunglasses - and I went down dere [there], and when I did, I tripped over that chain - and I fell. Lucky it was this shoulder 'cause that's a forward push, but this one, I'd [of] a been in trouble.

And when I did, I came up dere [there], and I said, “you got a doctor in the house?” He said, “yes, we

have. I don't think he's in, but I got the nurse and she's very good - she's a head

nurse down at Charlotte Hospital.” So, he rang the buzzer and got her, and she come [came] down. My arm - this one - was bleedin' [bleeding] like it was cut open because I [could] feel on this one, but this is the one that I was really worried about. So, she took it, and I said, “I don't know what's wrong with it.” No - it was the left arm - that's right. And she says, “well, let me see,” and she twisted it around and around, and I could hear it [go] AARRHHH!! - writhing (???) like that. She says, “well, you don't have a broken arm because it wouldn't make noise like that.” I said, “oh, my God!” I said, “here I am dyin' [dying] and you're tellin' [telling] me I don't have a broken arm!”

I campaigned for Wendell Ford, Louie Nunn—I[‘ve] got pictures of that downstairs in my file. I've campaigned for both parties - I wouldn't take one or the other. [ Showing memorabilia] CMA [Country Music Association] looked like BMI Night. CMA is the Country Music Association, and BMI is the performance company that we clear our records through. Look at all the stars right down the line. Here I am right before Loretta Lynn. Here's '85 -- a writeup out of the paper. And it tells all about - it's an endorsement of my character, I guess. The Buffalo, New York disc jockey who bought the radio station after 27 years - I've known 'im [him] since 1950 - it says: "To Pee Wee King

my friend, Rarnblin' Lou Schreiber (??)." That's how he looked at that time. That picture is dated 1950, but it was the picture - when he was younger than that··· And here's one thing I wanted definitely to get in - that's one of the best pictures--the man in black -- and he'll be bigger than he is now when he gets to Branson.

And I was thinkin' somethin' about a cover for the book. And I just got to lookin' through here and ... oh, this was 1984 -- that's Lee Greenwood. And he was here in 1984. Then he came back in 1991. And here's Schwarskopf (??) - so I put those two together. This is a girl named Sylvia—she’s out of the business now. There's one of them who never made it. She's very pretty.

Here is the band that shook (??) the band. And I thought they had a full band--there's two more boys back here - we didn't have enough band fronts. This was at the Hyatt Regency for 5,000 dancers -- for the McDonald's franchisees.

Here's a typical Philip Morris Show that I'm goin' to tonight - when we played it with a band - the big band. Angie Humphrey - she sang ''Hey, Good Lookin"' – we played her on and off with "Hey, Good Lookin.” "Jambalaya," "Bonaparte's Retreat," "Slow Poke" - we did all these on that show. "In the Mood" also. I'm going there tonight -- out to the Oak Ridge Boys and Ronnie [Milsap].

Dis [This] is one of the malls -- the biggest mall between Dallas and Ft. Worth--located on the Johnson Freeway. And that was the ad [chuckles). David Houston – I don't think you[‘ve] ever heard of. Look at these caricatures here. I found that, too. We played to 140+ stores, including Sears, (??) - we played to big crowds every night. That would have been about '83.

Here's Patsy Cline - "22 Greatest Songs of the Legendary Patsy Cline." What would [you] think about a picture like that for the cover? That was before Abrams Day. Here's the Candleglow Inn (??). It says: “Pee Wee King Returns December 2nd."

There's Redd and that's the president now of BMI, Broadcast Music Incorporated. And dis [this] was when we played there. (??). Marriage went kaput with a Louisville guy. He started two distributorships for Forbes down in Nashville and ran away with all the money. They caught him in California. And I am disgusted to the hilt listening to how our judicial system has treated those people out there - I'm familiar with that (??) Valley because one of our best friends -- Jimny Wakely- well, Inez is still livin' and she had to move from dere [there] and sell her big property when Jimmy died. And she's down there living close to her daughter - and that place – from watching television, I can see how they've ransacked and burned it and broke in and stealin' and everything. And there's over 500 in the hospital - and 5 of 'em, so far, they know got killed. [Referring to the Rodney King trial aftermath]

I served on a jury one time. It was a theft case. But I found out after that that the two boys or three boys that stole my lawnmower - my riding mower - one was wanted in Indiana at Jeffersonville and the other one in New Albany - for trafficking in drugs and also stealin' [stealing] automobiles and sellin' 'em up in Illinois. And dere [their] little wives set right behind me. One day when I was takin' rest period and I sat by Lydia a few minutes because the judge was gone a while, I used to always say, when the judge came out, I'd say, “here come [comes] de [the] judge.” And he'd smile. [chuckles] And we went to lunch twice. He says, “Pee Wee, by the way, don't forget – you[‘ve] got to go to lunch with me today -- I got a new place to go,”- in front of everybody - and I was on the jury. I served on the jury for two or three weeks. It was Judge Ryan.

I think those policemen who beat Rodney King used excessive force – attempted murder! And then when he got up, this guy kicked 'im [him] in the head one time and one time he hit 'im [him] with somepin [something] and rolled off, and right after that they showed somebody pickin' his pockets.

I have worked in Wendell Ford's political campaign, Louie Nunn and Martha Layne Collins. For Louie Nunn, we went to Lexington and worked a big schoolhouse for 'im [him] and did the music for 'im [him] and den [then] interduced [introduced] “Louie Nunn, the next Governor of Kentucky." I liked Louie Nunn; I think Roy Acuff came up, too, at that time, if I'm not mistaken. They were both Republicans. Roy Acuff ran as a Republican for governor of Tennessee but didn't get it. That's Mr. Frank's - it was Roy's idea and he said, “Joe, I'll stick in $25,000 to $50,000 on my campaign, and we'll draw crowds like you have never seen. We'll play the little foothill towns and everything,” -- and that's what they did--they went out - I even flew down there with our airplane - parked the plane at the airport and then they come [came] along with the bus and we took off and met Roy down in some little town -- below Winchester. Roy got up and made a beautiful speech what he'll do when he's governor and all that but - everybody was dere' [there] -- families, the kids and everything! You would think if the kids had a chance to vote, they'd already had him in. And he got beat 2 to 1. He got the Republican nomination, but he was whipped by the Democrats.

How can an entertainer become a governor? That's the way it used to be – now when I read about [Ronald] Reagan and his daughter Patty and some pretty bad things, I'm subject to think otherwise. I had a meeting with this boy at the service station -- Mr. Hendricks--Jim Hendricks is gonna move his space to the Zorn Avenue. He says, “Pee Wee, don't quit [on] me because I'm movin' to Zorn.” I says, “Jim, Dave -- what are you goin' to do with this thing here?” And he says, “they're gonna make a parkin' [parking] lot.” They said, “we've had three meetings with Standard Oil to prove that we are capable of running our bidness [business] to an enjoyable atmosphere - and the neighborhood loves us, because we service the neighborhood.” And they took the service station away from 'em and put 'em out here on Zorn Avenue - and that one's gonna close -- and dere're [they’re] already in there - they don't have to move here till June, but they're already settin' up in there.

And we were talkin' about what we saw when he left home, and I said, “so did,” --I -- I was watchin' the “Today Show.”” I says, “we're in a hell of a mess - or a mell of a hess, if you take it like dat [that].” I says, “government-wise, we got everybody and his brother runnin' for president -- even Jesse Jackson wants to become the vice president-- no matter who, if a woman's elected president, he'd probably go gung-ho about it.” Number three, I said, “our political situation is now not only in the state hands, it's on the local level. Read in the paper yesterday all about that.” And I says, “our judicial system is screwed up, and the political situation -- it isn't America for the people and by the people -- it's for the politicians and by the politicians.” He says, “why don't you go ahead and write a song about it?” I says, “I wouldn't be able to make this turn into the drive if I did [chuckles].” And he laughed about it. He says, “did they ever write a song about political and the wrong that - parts of

government?” I says, “well, I recorded a song one time a guy wrote down in Madisonville.” He had a record on it; he wanted me to go ahead and cover it, so I did it. It's a recitation called "History Repeats Itself." And it got off the ground a little bit. It seems like I do better with recitations and "The Deck of Cards" - "Hillbilly Heaven" -- oh my, God' - I used to do that on television – I[‘ve] got pictures downstairs.

The whole catalogue - when Jimmy Rodgers died, I got a picture of him. I dreamt Eddy Arnold was up ... [here he goes into the song] -- Hank Williams - and right up to the present day. And I used to do it and I never saved a copy of the film! Never'' I don't know why. I did it in Chicago, in Cleveland and Cincinnati. And Louisville here everybody used - right in - for it ....

I went to Tennessee and campaigned for Roy Acuff and Tex Ritter. I campaigned for Tex Ritter in Nashville. We went down to Nashville and rode the bus with 'em for two days, and it was horrible to hear the remarks they made about him. The minute he got off the bus - see, he was so worn out when the speeches and all that – the schedule he had was three days and two evenings that we were with 'im [him] that he wore the same cowboy suit -- and it wasn't trimmed -- it was just a plain Western suit – but it had decoration, but you couldn't see (??). And he looked like he'd just been to bed -- well, he did -- he was sleepin' in the back end of de [the] bus. This is Tex Ritter I'm talking about. And when you get off the bus and then Tex comes out there -- you always got a little applause for 'im [him] [claps] and everything when he got there. And the newspaper'd [newspaper would] come over, and [the] television [stations] would come over. This one newspaper guy was horrible. He said, “where does this guy get off!? Why does a Texan want to become a governor of Tennessee! Let's run 'im [him] out of de state and send 'im [him] back to Texas.” Of course, he was one of the other candidate's friends, I guess [chuckles] - I don't know – I never did bother. I says, “you know Tex? He said, “no, and I don't want to know 'im [him].”

Tex Ritter ran for governor of Tennessee seven years ago -- about 10, 11 years ago. He's dead now. He ran on the Republican ticket - he was very popular. So, I campaigned for both Tex Ritter and Roy Acuff. Well, I had to for Roy too, 'cause Mr. Frank was manager. I campaigned for Tex Ritter 'cause we liked 'im [him]. We all loved 'im [him] - he was just a great guy. He moved to Nashville from Hollywood and brought his wife there and she became head of the tourism department. I'd say Tex Ritter had lived in Tenn. At least 8 years, 10 years when he ran for governor. But his son John, the star, was a little kid when he come [came there] the first time. And he became the star that he is today. So, John Ritter kind of grew up in Nashville - partly. De [The] other one, too—the one that had the - some kind of local disease -- syndrome or somethin' like that.

I remember the crowds we had when campaigning for Acuff. We had big crowds. It was good to see families all together come down and sit down on the grassy knolls and everything - outdoors – right dere [there] in the moonlight and everything else - it was summertime. They’d come out and hear him but didn't vote heavily for him. [chuckles] Unless they stuffed the ballot box. Everybody loved Acuff and his music.

When he first broke in de [the] big time - and he was especially good to the soldiers -he didn't charge a dime for it - he did it all on his own expense--they call those (??). That was during World War II -- very, very popular. And they developed the old slogan and used it all during the campaign: "The Germans said, and the Japanese said to hell with Roy Acuff and America.'" Everybody Japanese, Chinese, Germans and -- they hated --anything to slur America. And they associated America with Roy Acuff, because he was entertaining the troops and kind of stood for what this country did.

I did not go overseas during the war to entertain troops. Acuff went overseas every Christmas. Every Christmas for about 8, 6, 7 years, I think. And then we were on a Camel Caravan, which is our biggest tour---19 months. And we played every - oh, man - I 've seen sights that I never would think I'd see in my life. The poverty of some of them [those] little places we were in -- Central America - Guatemala, Nicaragua, and then Panama. And we headquartered in [the] Washington Hotel right out of Panama City.

I liked Louie Nunn's politics. He was a gentleman. To me, he was like a big businessman and head of some big corporation. And evidently, he was a good one--there's nothing wrong with 'im [him] 'cause he was the governor. I'm registered as a Republican.

Many entertainers in the Country music business are Republican. Well, Democrats-- I have no particular reason, but from what I've observed in all these years I've been a Republican -- I've observed that when democracy comes to it, we got a war on our hands right away. I think the Democratic Party is a war party. But I wasn't brought up a Republican -- they were Socialists [Wisconsin Progressive Party] because that was the government -- the biggest government there was in Wisconsin at that time. We had the same - I think for 14 or 16 years, a Socialist governor and so my parents were Socialists - they voted the Socialist ticket. They were not Democrats - just Socialist ticket.

Here's two little writeups I forgot I had. A guy down in southern Kentucky, near Glasgow, was a rube comic. His name was Noble Carver, and he brought a car (??) to our attention named Cousin Emmie. And she had a group called Her Kinfolks. And Redd Stewart worked with her when she was very popular and had Cousin Emmie and Kinfolks--he was one of the kinfolks. And that's how come [Mr. Frank came to] Mr. Frank latched on to Redd Stewart when he was with Cousin Emmie. And it's so funny because here she was a star for our group - The Log Cabin Boys - and she had ... so evidently, that's how long I've had that write-up.

He was associated with Mr. Frank. Mr. Frank was instrumental in what I think a couple of the top bookin' agents at that time were Oscar Davis, - then he transformed Frankie Wool (??), one of the Log Cabin Boys, into a promoter and he made him manager of Kitty Wells and her husband, and Johnny and Jack and their unit - and den [then] when Roy needed extra -- like free announcements or PR stuff - he would take and go to work for Roy Acuff, too, at the same time. So, between the two of 'em, they're on the pretty good side. He turned down music and got to be a promoter.

I campaigned for Wendell Ford. I liked the same thing about him that I did about Louie Nunn - a big businessman. And I still keep in touch with 'im [him]. When I need help, when our BMI was in trouble with the radio stations, and we needed politicians to help us with lobbying and everything, why he was the first one I called. And Mitch McConnell was another one. I like Mitch McConnell very much. Jim Bunning - I saw him at the Oldham County Fair, and he and I sat down and had a sandwich, and coffee and talked. And I like that he was a sportsman -- a pitcher - and now he's a politician.

Most working people are Democrats. Two-to-one - right here in Louisville - in Kentucky. But after a person is successful - after he's made it - he tends to become a Republican. Maybe you learn somepin [something] [laughs]. Well, as I say, wartime is good to bring us out of a situation we're in, but it's a hell of a way to go back to normal again, because in wartime -- fortunately for America, we've never had a war except the Civil War in the United States. It's always been on somebody else's ground. God forbid that it's ever here.

I did not approve of Mr. Bush's Desert Storm War -- no way at all. I didn't think it was for a good purpose. If it was to bring back our hostages, it would have been different. But the main purpose was the oil. And God knows, I've read it in magazines -- Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, automobile magazines - there's enough oil right here in America. And we can produce it ourself [ourselves]. We can make enough gasoline out of corn and potatoes and different vegetables, they say. And it's been proven in Iowa, also it's ethanoyl. What difference does it make? We wouldn't have this problem we've got with the - now they're inventin' [inventing] the electric cars are comin' right along - General Motors has got the first ones on the road right now. But, see, that's another problem. They’re comin' around this thing like it's hitchin' your horses before you' re done workin’, you know --that's the way I explained it.

Women in politics today. Well, the ones that are workin' today - if they're successful bidnesswoman [businesswomen], I don't see [why] that one of them can't be president or vice president because if they're good in their particular field or that - wives are good managers -- a lot of 'em are--they don't get the credit for it because they stay home, raise their families, and take care of 'em.

Dis [This] little old lady that I read about that stand there on Highway 25 in Kentucky--she and her husband have that same filling station with the pumps still there – he passed away and she goes there religiously every day - might sell to one or two or three customers, but she enjoys her people and talks to 'em about olden times. She's 70-somepin [something] years old. And dey [they] all know her by her first name. They all talk about her and how great they were in their day when they were about the only Standard Oil Company--- or Ashland Oil Company -- buyers in that neighborhood. And I got a kick out of that – that poor old woman is still campaignin' [campaigning].

Business people [businesspeople] in politics. I feel this way, if you[‘ve] got a right hand, full of money and you spend it, what have you got in your left hand? You haven't saved anything. But if you put some of that money in your left hand, you can save it so when your tax time comes around, you won't have to go out and make a crook out of yourself to pay off your taxes. I think business people [businesspeople] are shrewd to a degree, it’s like the fellow said, “if my cash register is empty, I've done the wrong thing. I've spent everything I took in.” You can't spend more than you make, 'cause you're gonna pay for it.

My mother and dad taught me to be frugal. But then I remember when the crash came, my dad and mom got hurt---they were talked into buyin' some Canadian stock many, many years ago. A friend of theirs got married and went to Canada and he worked for the railroad, and he came to visit our family one time and he talked my dad and mom into buyin' some Canadian stock. Railroad stock. And Dad really went hog-wild whole-hog. He says, “kid, I'm tellin' ya [you], what we're gonna do -- we're gonna buy this stock and if it sells good, and makes money, we're gonna buy those two lots I told you about--I showed you -- what I'm tryin' to buy is lots and someday the railroad train is gonna come by and that might be a stop for a railroad train, and we'll have a business of some kind -- maybe a little restaurant or some kind of a grocery store or somepin [something] like that,” he said. “But that's what your pa is fixin' to buy.”

And den [then] my mother taught me the same thing. She said, “kind of invest your money in somethin' like that.” And they didn't believe too strongly in banks. They were always afraid they'd go broke, and then they'd have to stand in line and try to get their money back. Well, that's exactly what happened. What little they had with the banks; they didn't get it back. And stock went penny-ante stock - and then the crash came, and my dad and mom were caught right in the middle of it-- they lost everything.

I had some penny-ante stocks and some pretty good stocks - Russell Stover Candy was one. And Walthon (??) Watches. Oh, I bought a few back - see, when we were makin' these long trips, I had plenty of time to read and I subscribed to The Wall Street Journal. And I was at the hunt and peck system with the pin - wherever the pin dropped in, I'd buy the stock. I'd say I had fun with it, and I learned a lot. I'd buy and sell.

I had a broker that I trusted, and he ran away and sole me his stock that he was stuck with. And he was a Mormon, and he was an organist - he was a better organist than he was a stockbroker [chuckles]. He was a poor bookin' agent, too--he booked me in a place up in Blackwell, North Dakota, and the biggest tornado that ever hit that town--that was the night that it came - and I says, “God save Jerry Jacobs -he should go back to church and play that damn organ!” He was a stockbroker, booking agent and organist. And his wife was a singer.

I've made money on stocks I had some luck on some of the stuff, but nothing would verify me to just dump a lot of money in it. My son touted me on the stock for Dow Chemical just recently, and he says, “from all indications, if you buy,” – they just now bought a thing called Marion Laboratories – “and your stock will go up 25%.” So, I did; I bought Marion Laboratories and it turned out like it did. So, my 500 shares that I bought in Marion Laboratory paid off $5,500. So that was a good investment, from just a few months - I just had it about eight months. And then I sold. He said, “I'll let you [know] when to sell because I know when it's gonna hit its peak.” And sure enough, I bought it at 34 and sold it at 41. So, investing in stocks is like gambling. But it's also like entertainment--timing -- timing -- timing is important.

When I was in Las Vegas, I sent money home and it drew - I told the boys, “this is the way Homer and Jethro told us, draw every night,” --at night I go up and I ask the guy in the cage - I says, “here's a memo - I want to take some money out.” I said, “those guys, I tell you what, if they go home broke, they're gonna lose their shirts right here instead of makin' money or savin' it.” He says, “hell, let 'em have fun ----dey're [they’re] gamblin.’” He says, “don't you?” I says, “Oh, I gamble but I ain't [am not] gonna go shoot dice or play one of those chance games like the one-arm bandits.” If you gamble long enough, you're going to lose -- the house wins all the time.

I'm not a lottery bug either. And I got cured by the horses many years ago. When I had boots and dat [that], I learned a lot of things about horses because -- and then when I came to Louisville, in 1947, I met a guy named Steve Brooks, one of the top jockeys in the United States. I looked like him and he looked like me. We wore our cowboy hats we wore boots and everything else. And we'd meet at the Henry Clay Hotel -- at that little gay room bar over 'ere [there] - and have a martini in the afternoon for lunch -- and then he'd head for Churchill Downs and I'd go to the radio station. And I learned one thing from him when he said, “I'm gonna bet on his horse – no matter how--just like they did on Pat Day all last year.”

I learned that when they box you in - when the favorite jockey is always boxed in, he knows what's comin' on each side there's no way he can go or get off to the side against the rail - that's where he's at. So, he slows up and the horses pass 'im [him] but he knows he's got enough horse under 'im [him] to get to the outside and come across and weave between 'em because his horse is faster than they are, and especially in the stretch. And you watch -- this Arazie [Arazi] -- the favorite now -- 18th- - on the lineup he's way out on the end - he'll never be boxed in, 'cause when he starts, he'll be like a firecracker -- he'll take off about half-way and he'll just pass everybody up. I certainly think he’s going to win the Derby. I'm not going to bet on him, though, because there ain't [isn’t] enough money on 'im [him]. Ten cents on a dollar - you don't win anything. And just to have a winning ticket--I don't care anything about that. I'm either gonna gamble or I won’t gamble. And the little lotteries I play up in Michigan - when you scratch it off - you won 50 cents or $2.00.

I go to the Derby; we have a box up there. We go every year. I've been going since 1947. I enjoy it in that it's a social thing for family, too-- for all of us. And I got a seat 'for 8 people. So, Friday part of my family goes, and Saturday the other half. So, we alternate. And sometimes it's more fun to go to the Oaks anyway 'cause you don't have as much hassle. I bet -- I listen to my wife – filly about 4 or 5 years ago that won that big race. Lydia touted me - she said, “I'm bettin' that - I don't care what you do.” I says, “well, you buy your ticket and I'll go buy what I want.” And I did - I bought a ticket like she did. And when she said, “I[‘ve] got to go to the window to get my money,” I says, “oh, my, that's right - you bet on that horse--you told me it was gonna win.” I says, “oh, man, I'm glad I listened to you.” [chuckles] I give her all the tickets. She had read all about that filly. It was a big race--the Oaks that year. It was a surprise. And the funny part about it was we had just left the Fillies Ball and everybody was talkin' that horse. And it paid good.

My other hobbies and forms of entertainment are work. For many years, I played golf. See, at one time, I was a chairman with Paul Hornung (??) with the Pro-Am that they're havin' today, or it was yesterday. Pro-Am -- that's Standard Country Club. When Philip Morris was runnin' the thing, and of course, Philip Morris then took it all over by -- and dropped Paul and I -- they run it their own way. But Paul and I –I was the first one - and when I joined with Philip Morris ernceein' [emceeing] their shows and that, they said, “Why don't we name the golf tournament for you?” I said, “I don't want to do that.” I said, “I'll take the chairman job and we'll do it, but you run the ting [thing] from the office here.” So, Philip Morris ran the Philip Morris Golf Tournament. It was called Pro-Am -- professionals and amateurs.

And the guy that won on - the golfer that you know - Don Fightmaster - I always went to his tournament, too. He was always at ours. And he's such a great guy. And to show you how great he is – inspite [in spite] of the fact that it was rained out, the next day he came back and brought those kids all back there and have that sunny day right after the rainy day. And he took care of 'em - he's got 2 or 3 good sponsors.

I can't play golf now. Ever since I had my stroke, I can't. Exertion is the biggest thing, but then I always played for competition. It was side bets - like I won a dime off Eddy Arnold one time. And he paid me with two nickels and dropped 'em on the ground - he said, “there - pick it up - it's yours.” [chuckles] So that's the kind of gambling I do.

That was really big money for Eddy Arnold. He's tight with his money. He's also a generous person. He does a lot down in Nashville for [the] homeless, and different people. We were playing at his country club in Nashville when I won the dime from him. It's a beautiful place. It's the one he belongs to - Belle Meade out in Belle Meade.

I used to like to swim. That's why we went to the same place for years with the family - down there it's St. Pete and Tampa. It's called the Bilmar - it's right on the beach. You come out of your motel room and go right on the side through the sands and right on beautiful white sand. And we did that for about 17, 18 years. So, I liked to swim.

I used to pitch softball for National Life Insurance Company. I gave the writeup to Bill Denny's (??) dad was the general manager of the bookin' office in Nashville – the Grand Ole Opry. And he was our manager, and when he found out that I could pitch softball, why he said, “you're my man.” So, I says “good. If I'm workin' somewhere, I won't play the date -- I'll just pitch softball for ya [you].” And he says, I wouldn't do that.” [chuckles) But anyhow, that's one sport I enjoyed, but it was for a good cause, too, because we made good friends with a lot of people down there - at the park – Shelby Park we'd have it. Usually, it was on a Monday. This is Shelby Park in Nashville-- in the East End. Well, I could just walk from our home that we were at and go to the ballpark in about--.

And funniest thing when I was playin' ball – softball pitchin' - the umpire's callin' me down - see, I had that underarm swift pitchin' and they said, “one of the teams - they objected to me wearin' my cowboy shoes instead of wearin' cleats.” And I said, “I don't see that it's of anybody's business- I wear cowboy boots all the time -- if I could, I'd wear 'em to bed.” I says, “I love cowboy boots, and these are not cowboy boots -- they' re slippers- cowboy slippers-- they come just below the ankle.” And they had a big meeting on the mound -- they come [came] out there - the two referees --- and said, “well, you're violatin' [violating] the rule according to the other guys on the team,” --- the other baseball team. I said, “Well, I don't worry about them - I worry about us.” He said, “you[‘ve] got the advantage of a two--inch heel on the back end, that's where you get your speed.” And I says, “impossible!” I says, “if I wore cleats, I'd break an ankle or turn an ankle and then I'd be taken out of the game and probably carried off on stretchers and then I'd have to go on the road and I couldn't play because I can't walk.” I said, “now what's more important?” He said, “well, don't play softball.” I said, “I've committed myself to softball for National Life -- I'm gonna play it. With or without your permission, I'm gonna wear de [the] cowboy boots -- cowboy slippers.” They're rodeo slippers is what they were. So, they didn't have an answer for that. So, I went ahead and played. We won the championship that year. We played the whole summer -- a whole series. I'd say it was 10 teams. And we won the series. The name of our team was the National Life.

I never played tennis. l tried itbut [it but] I didn't like it. I used to love fishing. I loved fishing because we had a river right by our house on the farm in Abrams. You practically sat on the back porch and cast out in the river. When the high waters came, boy, and we'd get muskie like that [he demonstrates] and we got big fish up there. And then we'd go up to Green Bay – de [the] bay itself - comes in at Suamico-and we had relatives in Suamico and that's where my grandmothers and grandfathers lived. And we'd go out to the swamp and then take a boat and go out there – you could practically walk out in that water and fish for little perch. Catch about 50 of 'em, bring 'em home, clean 'em and then Mom would bake a potato or two and ah, man!

I've been fishing since I've lived in Louisville. I fish down in Florida. I don't fish in Kentucky. I fish in Florida at the Bilmar - at de [the] beach. St. John's Pass the bridge right dere [there]. We get under de bridge [the bridge] and cast at the entrance to the---. This is salt water [saltwater] fishing. It was fresh water [freshwater] fishing on the river in Wisconsin. I do fresh water [freshwater] fishing, too. I've never fished in Kentucky. I know there are some good places to fish in the state; my friend invited me to Patoka also and I didn't go. My sons go here to Taylorsville Lake once in a while but den [then] when they really want to fish, they go to Alabama ·- at the dam·- Muscle Shoals. In fact, Gene just came back. He called me Monday.

I've hunted, up north in Wisconsin. I hunted everything ·- deer, rabbits--and we had a lot of fun one time I remember with the raccoon[s]. It was an educated raccoon. We said he had to come out of a high school somewhere because he was too smart for us and couldn't do nothin' [anything] with ‘im [him]. We could [would never be able to trap 'im [him]. We tried to trap 'im [him] and everything. We were gonna catch 'im [him] and try to train 'im [him]. And instead of being wild - make 'im [him] tame. But [we] never did catch 'im [him]. This was up in Abrams, Wisconsin. We didn't hunt him – he was just a raccoon around the house.

We hunted those animals that swim in the water - they used to love the chicken food·-- not weasel - like a weasel. I can't remember now. This is a water animal. Not the beavers ·-- we liked beavers. I think it was a weasel. They make skin out of it·- they sell it. Not muskrats.

What I do now for recreation is work out there in that yard. I love it. This is the best our yard has looked in the last five years. I wentout [went out] yesterday and topped it off and it's got to last now until next week. I don't walk a lot --- not too much. And that's my biggest trouble when Grandpa always kidded me - Grandpa Jones - when we were together, he says, “you're goin' with me today, kid - how 'bout it?” And I says, “you and your five—mile hikes”. I says, “I'd [I’ve] never taken 'em.” I never had to walk. If I wanted somepin [something], I took the car, ran up to the store if I wanted - and traveled so much in my early days-- I didn't know nothin’ [anything]. I walked a little when we played golf, but I always had a cart when we played golf. It takes a lot of time to walk. And I feel like you're not accomplishing anything. And the joggin’ [jogging] -- I admire those people who're [who are] dedicated joggers, but I tell ya [you], I for one never took it up - couldn't do it. It just didn't appeal to me.

Maybe at times I'm an impatient person. Yeah, it's got to be right now or never. I'm dat [that] way. That's what happened yesterday; they predicted rain all morning – all morning it's gonna rain by 2 o'clock. One of my granddaughters came over yesterday - brought lunch for us and sat down, said,” I haven't visited you in about six months---” by gosh. And I says, “Jackie, for God's sake, we got so much food here in the refrigerator.” She says, “but Grandpa, I wanted to - Grandma and Grandpa just join me. [The] Only thing I want is [for] Grandma [to] make iced tea,” and I says, “ok.” So, we sat and visited, and she talked about her job and everything. And she's workin' at Outback - a new restaurant. She loves it very much. And her little girlfriend came by, and she had one of the Subway sandwiches with us -- stopped at Hardee' s and got one -- it was a sandwich about that long. And she says, “did [have] you ever have one?” I says, “when I grew up, one of my best friends was [an] Italian named Angelo Giodromi (??), and he'd come to our house and eat Polish sausage, and I'd go to his house and eat Italian sausage.” And I said, “dey [they] made Subways, but they called 'em Hero sandwiches.” That's the name they gave 'em. And I said, “that was back when I was 15 and 16 years old.”

I'm a very competitive person. The business makes you do it. Show business. I watched a show last night -- it was very beautiful - one of the best award shows I'd ever seen -- but dey [they] had a good guy runnin' the thing - Dick Clark is one of the best producer[s] (??) of country music - and he was a rock 'n' roll promoter. That' sthe first time I met 'im [him] was back in dose [those] days. Competitiveness has been a trait of mine all my life because I've been in the business where everything is competitive. Well, I didn't know anything else.

I can sit down and relax. It's not hard for me to do that. I can take an evening and watch television all night long. I realize that oftentimes competitive people have trouble sitting down and not doing anything - that is, not doing anything productive. --In a way, it still stays with me, but I think the stroke made a lot of difference, to me. It made me take it easy. That's right -- I says, “the Lord sent down that bolt and I got hit with it, and I know - thank you for [the] warning.”

I feel dis [this] way, at 78 years of age, I've been very fortunate when I think of all the things I've done, all that I've seen, and my favorite saying is when somebody asked me, he says, “would you do it any other way and change it?” And I said, no, not at all.” He says, “you mean you wouldn't change nothin' [anything] at all?” I says, “what do you mean change it?” He said, “do you like Country music as it is today?” I said, “well, you didn't ask me that. I thought you were sayin,' want to change it?” I said,” I wouldn't change it because the bottom line is I'm still here.”

(??) made that change, and then I tell 'em the story about [Cowboy] Copas. And this one kid --- I 'll never forget - you mention names to him like Cowboy Copas and

Hawkshaw (??) Hawkins - he said, “I[‘ve] never hear of 'em.” I says, “you're a Country music disc jockey?” He says, “yeah that's way ahead of my time. “He’s 24 years old - he knows all about Country music [chuckles) - Garth Brooks and Clint Black! If he's going to be an expert, he's got to know about the history of Country music. He was probably new on the job.

Then I, too, feel this way, and I mean it: The fact is I'm glad I did what I did, when I did it, how we did it, and I'd do it again if I could. But be it as it may, today, I know it's a new ball game, new situation. Everything is commercial today. And Minnie Pearl said many times, she says, “folks, we're here because we love the people - we love to entertain, not for the money. God knows, we don't make hardly anything for it.” Ad everybody says, -- “and dose [those] were hard days--the lean years.”

I would not go into the business today because I could not visualize the things that they're doin'. When I look at some of those videotapes that they[‘ve] got out, they take a song - a good song - and butcher it all to pieces, just to fit the situation where they can insert that particular moment. And I refer to that as Smiley Burnette used to write his song - when he was makin' pictures with Gene Autry - if a situation came - he's a comedian -- he had a be- funny --- it helped the pictures. And he became popular but see, he knew how to create a situation. It was his ideal, in the movie -- fall into the mud and finally gettin' mad- and he just splashed all of de [the] cow (??) went around de [the] other way [chuckles). Butsee [But see], these are the things that ....

But then you'd have the whole song if you had a situation that called for a song. And it wasn't butchered up. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if I'd go into the business today but, I got paid the biggest compliment I ever had from Waylon Jennings. Waylon Jennings came here to do the Philip Morris Show, and he was mad at his manger. So I met him down at this Henry Clay Hotel--and we talked and everything, and finally, he said, “Pee Wee, Why don’t you manage me?” I said, “Waylon, I can't even manage myself.” And the irony of it was, he got one of my musicians and hired him away from me – ateel [a steel] guitar player and made him manager of his little studio and all that extra stuff - Don Davis - little kid that John knew when he was - not a little kid - a young man 16 years old - he looked like he was 25. Don Davis, a steel guitar player. So that's the closest I got to helpin’ manage Waylon Jennings. Davis is not working anymore. He's a beach bum, down in Florida. - Gulf Shores. He

makes money once in a while dloin' a soundtrack for a song for a movie. He hires a bunch of men and they do the soundtrack for a picture that they shoot in Florida or dey [they] go to Alabama and he'll got [go] with 'em.

As far as the single Country music recordings go today, some of the girls and some of the boys -- I'll give credit more to the girls just now because dey [they] come up with some pretty darn good songs. And I admire Dolly more now than I did years ago because she's now become - well, she wanted to be a bidnesswoman [businesswoman].

Among the girl singers in Country music that I admire today, well, I start out with Kathy Mattea (??) is one. And the one I saw last night that I thought a lot of was - of course, Reba McEntire has made it already. Outside of Reba McEntire, that girl from Kentucky, a very new one - she's a very pretty girl. And one that I didn't understand how she got-- Trish Yarwood [Trisha Yearwood] - I don't see how she made it so big so fast. There are so few left of the older ones that I admired. Girl Country singers. You got Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Barbara Mandrell - all the Mandrell Sisters are very good - equally talented -- and there's a few out there in different towns.

Among the male singers that I like today, I like Clint Black very much. And I admire Garth Brooks to rise to the heights that he's reached, because he wasn't an overnight success like many people think he was. Among the more established ones, I like Hank Williams Jr. - oh my gosh, yeah! When Rose and the Williams family were havin' their legal battle down at Birmingham, I stopped off and got out, because Weston-Rose wanted me to testify in [on] their behalf, and I did, and the first one I ran into in the courthouse was Hank Williams Jr. This little kid right there he said, “Pee Wee - Uncle Pee Wee – “he comes right around and says, “oh, what are you doin' here?” And Hank's wife says, “come here, Junior. Kid - get over here.” He says, “Uncle Pee Wee.” And he says, “I don't care for Uncle Pee Wee - he's on the other side.” “Okay” (??) Dad.” Hank looked at me, and he dropped his eye like that and says, “is that so?” I said, “yeah.” I says, “it's just that way.” He said, “well, you can still (??) me.” I said, “I still like you. And ever' [every time] time I see 'im [him] now, I say, “you don't call me Uncle Pee Wee no more [anymore].” [chuckles] He's an entertainer - he gives 'em their money' s worth.

The influence that TNN [Turner News Network] has had on Country and Western music. I know how TNN got started. Mr. Gaylord owns about six or seven newspapers and a couple of radio and television stations. Dis [this] was at one time [owned by] a woman (???) but it's also such a good story and I have to quote somebody else for tellin' me the thing because it seemed like bein' [being] that [in] Dallas was without a big show - 'cause Dallas at one time was a big show town for country music -- but they only had a wrestling complex that they used. There was a center ring for the artists had to turn around and play to four different audiences. And each could sort of - they'd be able to hear 'em and see 'em. So, they--they built a beautiful auditorium down dere [there], so I think Mr. Gaylord was ready to open up with a barn dance of some kind, because Texas music is really good - tremendous - I mean dey're [they are] loyal fans and great entertainers.

And Mr. Gaylord found out about WSM was gonna be sold, and Gene Autry was tryin' to buy it, and so was Opryland Hotel, so was the "Hee Haw” -- that whole package was for sale. And Gene thought -- he figured that there were 2 or 3 other people that were in it, but he thought he had the top bid on that. And den [then], when he got called, I was with Gene at the time he got called, in Washington, D.C. - we were there together for the Country Music Association 25th anniversary. And Jimmy Davis and Gene Autry and Grandpa and Jimmy Dickens and all that-- all of us

were there. And put on a show for Reagan and George Bush--president and vice president.

This was 8 or 10 years ago. I've got the pictures and writeup downstairs.

Anyhow, when he---. [tape cuts off]