Oral History Interview with Pee Wee King

The reason I remember it because I asked Owen Bradley - he was production manager of the movie and why they use “You Belong to Me.” He said, “it was too pop.” And I says, “well, at the time she recorded it, she didn't think so.” He says, “no - and I'll tell you the truth - I called Mr. Autry about that one thing, and I don't remember whether he said they were sellin' the songs for so much money and all that.” But, he said, “there was a lot of discrepancy ... pop of a song.” But see, it was a hit so long ago. Now she's been dead a long time, too. Patsy Cline.

I liked her style of singing very much. She and I worked together. But we didn't get to know each other like I did Dolly 'cause we spent a whole week workin' with Dolly, and we had time in between. And one of the biggest dates we had was Fairfield, Iowa the Threshers' Association where they have 35 to 40,000 people in a little bitty town. And it poured down rain from the time we got tere [there] to the time we left. And we had to make do - we went to the schoolhouse -- left the fairground and they had lunch for us over at the schoolhouse cafeteria. And Dolly -- I'll never forget -- we were sittin' (??) and talkin', and I said, “well, how [have] things been goin'?” And she said, “you never stop to talk to me.” I said, “Hell, I can never catch up with you!”

And she said, “I'm goin' through a lot of things right now but I’ll be all straightened out, in 10 years. I expect to have everything what I want because I don't want dem [those] people to say, “hey, 'member Dolly Parton? That's her - that old woman walkin' dere [there].”” And she made it - in the 10 years from the time we talked about it – then every time we see each other in Nashville, she says, “Pee Wee, I have to hang on five more years on it [chuckles].”

I knew Dolly when she was workin' with Porter Waggoner on television. We worked dates together. The two of them had a syndicated show. She broke [it off] with him. It was unpleasant for him and her both, because he lost a star, and at that time, his band was tryin' to break up and everything. They were workin' too hard. She left him because she wanted to go out on her own. She thought it was time, and it was time, and she picked the right time. It was “The Porter Waggoner Show” featuring Dolly Parton, but it was his show. He was the main honcho because he was the star of the show.

Eddy Arnold left me--he had been working with me - but he thought it [was] best to go on his way. So, I've had it happen to me. [Cowboy] Copas, Minnie Pearl, Grandpa Jones, they all left me. There [were] was no hard feeling[s] - they just come [came] up to me and says--Eddy gave me a six-month notice. And I says, “ok”-- I thought he was kiddin' – when the, six months was [were] up, Eddy says, “well, this is the last week, King, that I goout with ya.” I says, “what?” He says, “'member [remember] -- I told ya six months ago I'm gomna quit.” I said, “oh, for God's sake.” And we were busy, busy -- just runnin', ya know, all de [the] time.

I didn't know if he would succeed by himself, but he had all the makins [makings]. I mean you couldn't deny when his first records were on the top already. I may have helped give him a start. He was already a singer, but he didn't have a record contract, and nobody would hire him except that station at St. Louis gave 'im [him] a noontime show for a half-hour with a fiddle player and a bass player. And he was sponsored by a record shop. And that's how he started. Then when he came back home for a while, there was a woman called - Thompson was the last name -- and Arizona Cowgirls. And Eddy joined the cowgirl band. But he was a comic with a rag on his toe and blacked-out teeth. Rube. He did the rube stuff. But he wanted to experience everything. And of course, he was gettin' paid for that, too, because they had a sponsor on the show, and when they went back to Jackson -- and they broadcast[ed] on radio there and they played all [of those] them little schoolhouses around there.

And Eddie came right out of Jackson. He worked at Penson -- that's where his home was. And he worked for a[n] undertaker studying mortuary business. He knew he wasn't going to do that. There was a reason for it - I don't know - he enjoyed it. He and that man had a good rapport. And when Eddy started gettin' big, he never failed to go by and have lunch with him. But what it was, I don't know. Of course, a kid from the country tryin' to make a buck here and a buck there, and then by the end of the week, what do you have - 7 or 8 bucks? That was his theory of livin'. He always managed to make it.

It was probably more cash than he had ever seen before -- to be making that much. And easy -- compared to what you'd have to do on the farm. That's why he called himself The Plowboy. The Tennessee Plowboy.

Dolly and Porter are friends now. They do duets on television. I don't think it was ill-will when they split up as much as necessity because she was goin' for de [the] big time. And she felt that she was a tag-along with Porter Waggoner because she was just one of the boys. Minnie was just one of the boys. When Roy let her ago for a while, Mr. Frank put her on our show -- why she was just one of the boys. And she wrote that in the book.

These people -- if they think they've got it - got the talent and the drive-they do it then because it may never come around again. So, Dolly timed it right. I can name you a coupla [couple of] girls who didn't time it right. Jan Howard, when she was with Bill Anderson, she quit. Tried to make it on her own and see she never got (??). She was a friend of Patsy Cline's. There was another girl -- Connie Smith. She worked with Bill Anderson; he found her in Wheeling, West Virginia. She was one of the girls on the barn dance there, and he took her and started groomin' her - teachin' by givin' her television exposure. And she got her first record contract; then she told Bill, “this is time for me to go.” She hit fairly good there at the beginning. Connie Smith was a big name in Nashville.

Some people in the industry become superstars and some don't. It's a matter of talent, but it's the management and how you sell 'em. Now Winona Judd is goin' out as Winona; she dropped the name Judd. So, she feels like she's doin' the right thing.

[Interruption for phone call.]

I don't know da [the] difference between a lungadumdum (???) and a lily' [chuckles] I'm not a gardener -- just in name only. Well, she did the mulchin' -- I did the .... I don't know the names of the shrubs in my yard -- there are so many of 'em - but I tell ya, as I said when I took the Lydia home and she met my mother, and my mother says, “she's gonna have a green thumb like I got [have], son -- just watch and see.” 'Cause she loves flowers. That's one of the reasons we came home was because [of] dis [this].

Every season has its advantages and disadvantages. But dis [this] year has been a wet one, and boy, I'll tell ya -- up in Michigan, my son was complainin' [complaining] about the snow up there. And my brother-in-law in Chicago -- he's complainin' [complaining] about the sewer busts and openin' (??). Downtown Chicago - he said it was like a morgue. Everybody cleared ... and I'd asked 'im [him] about-- I said, “how did the people that work in the John Hancock Building at 101 stories high get -- there's no power anymore and all at once it goes out and how are they goin' to get down?” He says, “walk, I guess.” He says, “I've never experienced that -- I've never thought about that.”

I asked him if the water standing in the Loop area -- underground in the foundations of those buildins [buildings]-- if that doesn't weaken the foundations? He said, “naw, because dis [this] water wasn't dere [there] that long.” They got rid of it as fast as they could, tryin' to pump it out, but the damage was done right away because it was an emergency flood that came there.

And Richard [M.] Daly's [Daley’s] daddy – Mayor [Richard J.] Daly [Daley] was his father -- predicted that someday there was going to be a disaster come through in the Chicago River - right downtown. And all those offices and everything they got down there – “the tunnels are not going to last forever, son.” And he was the one that hired the guy. And the guy didn't listen to the -- put out a memo - but didn’t—no one pay [paid] no [any] attention to it.

I love Chicago to work in, but I don't think I could live in it - not anymore. I've lived essentially in just two cities in my adult life -- Louisville and Nashville. If I would of [have] made a choice and retired when I should have, I'd a [of] just moved up to Abrams or Green Bay -- up in that territory. But that would've taken me closer to all my people and relatives. But den [then], I'd deny Lydia from her family 'cause her family's in Nashville -- most of 'em - and the ones in Chicago—so.

As I get older, living that far north in that cold of a climate, that was a point that I was given many times when I think of how they’re snowbound up there. And I've been in that—as a farmer boy, I remember havin' to shovel our way to the barn to be able to milk the cows and all that. When you're 16, that's not so bad - that's the right age to be in that environment. When you're 78, that's a different story! I look at it differently now.

Louisville is certainly a pretty good city to live in. And I'm glad -- I've said this many, many times and I really meant it sincerely, I'm glad we did when we did it and how we did it and where we did it because the business I was in has changed so much -it's like a basketball game -- it changes in every city you go to -- different players an[d] all that. It's the same with show bidness [business] now - I mean country-music style bidness [business].

And I can see a [the] tremendous impact these new people are having on our particular business - it's for the good of the business - financially and monetarily--- but, when it comes to longevity -- that's the thing that we had -- I don't believe some of these people are goin' to be able to carry on that long. I don't think their careers are going to last as long as say the first generation of country music superstars.

There was a generation ahead of us and we saw them go. But the opportunities they didn't have that these kids have today. I didn't either because we didn't have television in those days. And Mr. Frank was always lookin' for a 50,000-watt station, and centrally he'd locate. And Autry was so smart that when he started makin' movies, he hired these groups every city had a 50,000-watt station - he'd hire a group from them and promise to be in a movie. Like he did [for] us.

And of course, he was one of the first. And I think that I gave him a lot of credit for what country music is today, because he not only promoted it -- he showed how to make a business out of it.

And Mr. Arnold is no slouch about it either. And [n]either is Mr. Acuff. And there you[‘ve]

got three people that Mr. Frank taught. And Mr. Tubb was on the verge of being an all-time big man-- he is a big man - but his career was cut short by his passin' away.

Although there were people before it hadn't gelled, I would consider all these people including myself the first generation of Country and Western music stars - I'm speakin' from the Grand Ole Opry standpoint. Because it's the only thing that survived in all these years. There were other barn dances that haven't survived or been as big as the Opry is. But management there again – come [came] into the picture. And Mr. Frank helped it a lot by--when he first went to the Grand Ole Opry, he told Mr. Craig, he says, “Mr. Craig, you shouldn't give this show away -- just people come in free.” He said, “never give nothin' [anything] away that's as precious as a show -- show people that are puttin' on an entertainment like that if it's a quarter or a dime or 15¢, if you charge it, it's worth somethin.’” Mr. Craig's answer was, “that's the only way we sell our insurance. The only way we know of.” And he said, “I'm sure those people will still come if we charge a quarter. And maybe pay the people somethin' for what they're doin' on [the] radio.”

I had quite a few people who worked with me who left and who didn’t become successful. Hal Smith is one of 'em. But he's made a lot of money and bought Renfro Valley one time. But he got out of da [the] business being the fiddle player for Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowboys. He got it as the manager of a big publishing company that he created and the first song they had was a smash hit. And he must of made about $100,000 on it-- I can't remember the name of it but everybody recorded it-- it was written by Hank Cochran -- one of the all-time great songs. He started his

publishing business in Nashville. And he stayed with it. And made it international. Now he's retired, so the company's not in business anymore. He owned Renfro Valley for a short while before Mr. Lair decided he was gonna keep it and invited Red Foley and Duke of Paducah and two other people -- Lulu Belle and Scotty - as partners.

Don Davis, the steel guitar player, he left me. He became Waylon Jennings' manager at the office in Nashville. And Kris Kristofferson. And Davis found something [there] dere that he was missing when he was playing music because when he played music, it was [not] stagnant to him anymore -- he played as much music as he possibly could, while he was young. I hired him at 16. And he was a big husky guy, and I thought he was about 19 or 20. And I just took his word for it. I says, “you want to come to work – my boy’s goin’ to the service - he's called in.” He said, “sure.” He says, “I'll send you

a picture.” He sent a picture. And I called 'im [him] right back immediately. I says, “Well,

we're gonna be in your town - we're gonna play Jackson, Mississippi, and Tupelo, Corinth, Mississippi and down there.” I said, “you come and join me in Jackson.” He was from Sasuma [Satsuma], Alabama, but he was workin’ for a guy at Jackson, Mississippi at the time, and it was a drag to him, he said. It was Jackson, Mississippi -- on radio. There was a local guy who was content bein' on [the] local radio station and playin' all this (??), so Don quit him and says, “oh, I've got it now. Got the tiger by the tail.”

My people didn't sign contracts with me. The only contract I had was with Redd Stewart for a short while. And then when he come to me, he says, “I no longer want to exercise my contract, so I want to start by myself. I want to go in bidness [business] for myself.” And I said, “that's ok.” He said, “but, see, we were partners in the publishing company already.” So, we had (??) ads on Redd's records that he made for King at first -- the first records he made were for King Record Company in Cincinnati. They used to run full-page ads in the Billboard, Cashbox and Record World. And we always included Redd Stewart, the new King recording star as new releases so and so and so. And I've got ads to prove it.

I had people to leave angry. A boy named Roy Sprayberry from South Carolina. He come [came] into Nashville huntin' for a job. He was a pretty well-known kid around Greenville, South Carolina, which is where I think he came from. And Mr. Frank met 'im [him] downtown- he called Mr. Frank and said, “I received your letter and I want to go ahead and join Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowboys.” Well, by that time, I had all I could stand on payroll. Where could we find room for another family - three kids, a wife, and they'd have to rent an apartment. And they didn't have enough money to move. And I said to Roy the first trip he made with us, “why don't you do this - see how you like

it first because we're gone[ going] a hell of a lot of the time.” And the wives don't like that -- raisin' the kids by themselves. If your wife understands that, then you---. But dis [this] isn't a little schoolhouse where the radio station is where you goin' to -dis [this] is a 50,000-watt that goes all over the United States.

He said, “well, that doesn't bother me. I can talk her out of it.” And so, he came by himself for a couple of weeks, and she got sick of sittin' [at] home. And I says, “well, you[‘ve] got to make your choice -- either you're gonna stay with us and bring her here

or you're gonna go back there.” He said, “no, I better be goin' back to keep my marriage. I'll tell you what,” -- he said, “if you could[‘ve] of given me enough money to stay here, I'd astayed [I would have stayed] here.” He was angry at me because I didn't make any effort to keep 'im [him].

First of all, he was a superstar in his own mind already. He never amounted to much after this. I never, never even seen 'im [him] after that. And I played South Carolina a lot of times. Never even bumped into 'im [him].

There's a lot of sifting and shakedowns in the business. One of the worst things

that I can explain easily by sayin’, you take five men in a van. They give themselves, a name. The leader is usually the best one of the bunch. So, what happens, they stay together for a coupla [couple of] years and all at once they hit. Like Alabama did. They don't know what made it. It was just the right time, the right thing. And instead of bein' grateful -- Alabama stayed together -- instead of stayin' together and milkin' that cow for all you can get out of her, either the lead singer quits that helped make the band or else the musicians that made the leader - they quit. And they join another

band--he's got a bigger bus and pays $5 a day more and stuff like that.

I never had anybody to leave who really crippled the band by his absence. We always carried on. It seems like when Redd left to go on his own - at that time, fortunately, for me, I didn't have too much problem of [a] adjustin' for the rock 'n' roll era because I hired a boy up in Cleveland, Ohio, and he sang rock 'n' roll music, and he sang good -- he sang great. That was Dick Glasser. And he was with his brothers and his sister. They called themselves 'The Three G's. And he appeared on my show one time, and he said, “I'd like to go to work for ya.” And he says, I”'ll even write songs for your publishing company.” He said, “I[‘ve]got a whole book of 'em, and I'd like for Ridgeway to put 'em out for me. So it all fell in place - just like a jigsaw puzzle.

In come Dick Glasser and by gosh, the first two sessions we did with him - boy,

it was a smash. I mean the Victor people didn't know what happened to me - they

thought I was goin' nuts. I said, “no, I'm an entertainer; I'm gonna change with the

times.” And that's when I finally says, “well, we're no longer Grand Ole Opry.” I've had to adapt a lot through the years. I changed bands, too. I did that because if I had a lot of dates that were [we’re] comin' in from Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota and that territory, I'd use a band from that territory that. was hot. And then I'd take 'em on the tour all the way through there and then come back home and then my boys would come back again and we'd work it out. And they'd do the record

sessions with me and everything.

I'd form a band to do a certain area, and certain era. To do recordings, I'd use the same band I'd take on the road. If was doing a recording, and I think, So and so

is not quite right for this or I need another singer, I'd bring somebody else in. I didn't hesitate to wait. I never had any problems with this -- the musicians adapted to it. The principal is the man who's goin’ [to] sll the records. Either the band's gotta be great or the singer's got to be great. And I hired the singers that I thought fit the band. Den de [Then the] band started getting better. And the boys in the band

started gettin' better. So then when you had everything that we needed in our group

- those eight or nine men that I had at that time -- we could do solos, duets, trios,

quartets, and feature band instrumentals. And everybody was a star. And if you don't

believe it, ask 'em [chuckles].

We never had any jealousy in the band - not among the boys. And not among the girls because we never had more than one girl singer at a time. I didn't notice any professional jealousy in my group. We had no reason to have jealousy - I was the

boss and that's the way it went.

I didn't know there were some girl singers in Nashville who wanted to bump Loretta Lynn from the Opry when she was getting started. By being on the Grand Ole Opry, we

used that - the Grand Ole Opry -- for playin' our dates and all - it was our livelihood. So, we were gone on the road most of the time - 250 days a year. So, I wasn't always aware of any professional jealousy that might have been going on in Nashville. I didn't know of any backfighting or backstabbing among country music performers, I couldn't name any one or two or three people.

As to whether or not there was professional jealousy, we always called it a

respect the stature of the person teat they're workin' for or that we joined up with. Like if we worked a package show with four acts on it, the promoter would know who,

by record sales, and who drew the most people, so consequently, he closed the show.

He was the star. And they're superstar is the number one attraction - and he's got [the] number two attraction right ahead of him - and then number one is they guy who’s looking or the the girl who's lookin' for a break to go in show bidness [business] deeper and make her reputation for herself. Sometimes it does and sometimes

it don' [does not] work. And I've seen cases where it don't [does not work.]

The attitude of the establishment, or movers and shakers in Nashville, towards the Grand Ole Opry stars, was not one of acceptance. Well, we had one strike to begin with. The second strike was waitin'(??) when we joined the Grand Ole Opry. And the third strike you could feel it because the people who lived in the West End -- Belle Meade -- they didn't sanction the Grand Ole Opry. They just didn't care for hillbilly music. Because it was hillbilly then, see. It was traditional hillbilly

and true hillbilly. I don't think these people were embarrassed by the Grand Ole Opry

being in Nashville because they had no reason to frequent the Grand Ole Opry. Dey [They] had

their own little click [clique] that they - golf tournaments, card games and all that. Dances--

that's the way it worked.

some of

There was a social relationship between people in Belle Meade and some of the Opry stars. Eddy was taken into them right away. A lot of the early country performers were not very well educated - not the ones before our time. The fact that Patsy Cline was not well educated is probably an isolated incidence because you take a guy like Leroy Van Dyke -- I flew home with 'im [him] from Chicago one time -- we were met at the airport--- and then he told me, he says, “if I don't make it, Pee Wee, I can go back to my egular trade – husbandry,” -- he was in the cattle bidness [business]. The guy who—auctioneer’s song -- he made it popular. And I says, “you what?” He said, “don' t you know

I'm a graduate of college? Got a degree?” I says, “uou're puttin' me on; man.” I says, “don’t.” He says, “honestly, Pee Wee, I'll prove it to ya.” I says, “no - I don't need the proof -- I'll take your word for it. And we've been friends ever since. In fact, when we left Nashville last week when we were filming, he was the last guy hugged and 'braced and .... This is Leroy Van Dyke.

Other college graduates in the business include Minnie Pearl. Loretta Lynn wasn't. Patsy Cline wasn't. Until the era now, like Garth Brooks, he's a college graduate. So is Clint Black. The new generation's got the education. Hank Williams wasn't college educated -- not by a long shot. Neither was Hank Williams Jr. A lot of the early superstars didn't even finish high school. Roy Acuff didn't go to college; he went to high school.

I don't think these performers felt insecure around people who were better educated than them or who thought they were better educated than them. I never felt inadequate. The only thing I don't like to go to is (??) meeting parties that you're with an organization that you belong to, and then rub elbows and talk to people who don't understand show business or show people. They're probably political minded or else they're business minded -- stock brokers and that. And see, the only thing I know is show business. If you start askin' me about other things, I turn a deaf ear to them because I don't know what it is - I'm not a college graduate. So, I'm limited.

And so far, I've gotten by. Tey [They] take me in and that's it. Everybody's limited in some way. Personalities make it, too. That's the difference. Some guy can be the richest guy in the world, and he has no personality.

I've never felt insecure or inferior. Never inferior. Never inferior. I would say some country music stars have felt inferior - I'd say Hank Williams right off the bat. To begin with, he was so in love with his wife that he thought she'd someday leave 'im, [him] and he's written many a song to prove it. He thought she might leave him, and it was the jealousy thing. I don't think he thought that she thought he was not good enough for her -- it was just an inferiority complex with Hank. He didn't have to be either 'cause ... [chuckles] after all, he’s one of the original geniuses in American Music. But I don't know that he felt if he had a different background -- had been better educated – thaa [that] she would have like[d] him more. But his insecurity is reflected in his songs--that's how you can tell.

I think sometimes the songs a person writes reveal[s] the insecurities of the person. Guys who become songwriters today - I don't think they worry about circumstances or situations - because today's market in [the] music bidness [business] is almost anything -- you can write about anything. Years ago, three little fishies [fishes] swam and they swam, and they swam over de [the] dam--songs like thaa [that] even made it. So, you know, there's been a change. A big change.

Minnie Pearl, of course, is very well-educated. She went to finishing school and everything. She certainly helped to bridge the gap between the upper classes or Belle Meade, and the Grand Ole Opry. She didn't do it intentionally. When she was on that tent show with that man that she worked for at that time--the tent show when she did the acting - and that's where she found and discovered Minnie Pearl – the character. And actually, Minnie's college education helped her. Because she added to what he was wantin' her to do but she added class to it. She added -- well, take the straw hat with the tag -- what woman would go out on the street with a tag on a straw hat [chuckles] but she was able to do it. But at the same time, she was appearing on the Grand Ole Opry, she was also bein' recognized by the Belle Meade people. Well, she was a Ward-Belmont graduate. So, she

moved in both circles without any trouble. I don't think she was embarrassed by what she was doing on the Grand Ole Opry it was like a ball player -- put on a uniform when he's out on the field and take it off when he gets through. But she's show bidness [business] all the way.

I really don't know why she wanted to go into show business—considering her education, background, and the kinds of circles she ran in. Well, her mother was a jolly person and a great piano player -- honky-tonk piano type. And her dad was a fine businessman. So, between the two of 'em, she's got both traits goin' for her.

I have not heard from her since we've been back. May 6 -- we're prayin' that she's able to be out for at least 15 minutes. And she'll probably have to come in a wheelchair. Dere [They are] havin' a salute to Minnie Pearl. And it's bein' worked on now, and I imagine dey [they are going to] gonna have a big audience for it. But I don't see how - I know she won't tremble or anything but I don't think she'll be able to stay over 15 minutes -just to accept an award - it must be one of the best awards Nashville's gonna give out to anybody. This will be at the Grand Ole Opry. It will be taped. I'm going down for it. I was the first one to [get an] invitation - I think I was. Henry said to me, “you know darn well you'd be the first one to be invited.” And I says, “well, I'll be the first one to say I'll be overjoyed and probably cry in her face like I do all the time.” It's going to be an emotional experience for her and me both. And for a lot of others, too.

This is going to sound like a farewell. That's the only thing I hate to see -it's a tribute -- but she's been paid a lot of tributes and she's survived 'em, so I'm sure she'll survive this one. At this point, I don't know who else is going to be on the program. The guy called while I was away -- left a telephone number for me to call- and I called an office and the secretary answered, she said, “no, we don't have anybody here, by that name. And what's your answering service number?” And I says, “well, he

had it because he called me and that's his number.” But I says, “I'll give it out--it's no secret.” And she said, “ok, leave it with me and then I'll check it out. Will you be home most of the day?” I said, “I certainly will - I'll run a few errands, but I will be home most of the day.”

And I called again, and I called the right number 'cause I found I have the letter with his office number on it. And I thought it was one of their people in the promotion department because he said somethin' about Minnie Pearl to me. And that's why I told Lydia, I says, “oh, yeah - I've got to call that guy definitely.”

On the tribute, I imagine we'll just pay tribute - all of us take our picture together—stuff like that. It will be a short thing. If anybody will get somethin' to say, it'll be Roy Acuff. And rightfully so. I don't know if there will be any performances or songs dedicated to her. In fact, the letter—I don't know how they're gonna promote a show or do anything like that. I thought it would be just a walk-on for her and an award given to her or whatever it is.

I did perform with Patsy Cline. And others. Donna Fargo was a sweet girl, but it caused us to lose a lot of money in Green Bay, Wisconsin. We didn't know whether it was her not coming up to wantin' to play it or whether the ice and the snow got her. She was featured - Donna Fargo was the happiest girl in the U.S.A. - was the hit record. And we had her booked into Green Bay, Wisconsin in December, and her wacky husband said, “no, we aren't goin' to come up there for one date. “And I said, “well, that's all we can give you unless you can get somethin' around it.”

He said, “well, that's up to you. You want Donna Fargo on the show - she'll have to play two days.” And I says, “well, I wouldn't care for it for two days - I just be honest with ya - I'll get somebody else.” He says, “you do that, Mr. King - I'll be very glad.” And so, I tried a couple other people and then finally wound up with Bill Anderson. I said, “why don't we use Bill?” I told the bookin' agent and gave the promoter – “why don't we use Bill Anderson 'cause he's got a daily TV show in Nashville. And they hear [it] up there and watch it on television in Green Bay. And right before Christmas, he'll deliver - he'll give us a lot of plugs. And you do the same thing here in Green Bay, and I'm available for you anywhere you want - radio, television.” - I even sat in Santa's lap and had my picture made [chuckles]. That's how desperate we were to sell tickets!

But we were in a great big Packer auditorium that seats about 6 or 7,000 people. And we only had 1,700 tickets sold. So, we had to scramble quick. But we didn't come out all right -- we lost money. But I think if Donna Fargo had come up, we could have sold more tickets because when you advertise for a month that you're gonna have Donna Fargo and then the last minute she konks out and then you're desperate--you're lookin' for anybody. We had Kitty Wells and her show they made it from Nashville. Bill made it from Nashville. I think that was about '76 but I'm not sure---- whenever Donna Fargo's record was hot. I never tried to book her again; I'm sorry but that's how I feel. But I speak to her when I see her - but I don't speak to her husband [chuckles]. I tink [think] I'd talk to him if I had to, too.

I don't think there's anybody I don't talk to. When you get the cold shoulder, you can feel it. You can usually tell when a person gives you the cold shoulder. You're either not in his category or [you’re] not familiar with the way he makes a livin', or the way he lives. But it never bothers me.

I can tell when a musician or a performer is not giving his or her best. You can, tell especially in a group. When you got a group and one guy lags behind or a girl lags behind, she's not puttin' out 100 percent or givin' it 105 percent at least when she's on stage at the microphone -- it's just a matter of course - you can feel it. The audience can feel it. And those people are not much fun to work with.

I got a letter today from a boy that played when Franklin Roosevelt died – that I told you he played the trumpet, and it's the first time the trumpet's ever been on the Grand Ole Opry. His former wife -- she now lives in Florida - sent me a latter and told me that Buddy was in the nursin' home in Missouri. So, I wrote Buddy a letter and sent a whole bunch of stuff out of my scrapbook where he got featured in the Grand Ole Opry schedules as Buddy Snoblen (??) –“ Buddy Snoblen Harold (??) joins Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowboys as an addition to the band - plays piano

and trumpet.” And good picture of him - a real bust shot - and I saved that for him. I send that to 'im [him].

Then the picture I got with Bob Kay in the cinema-- -he's in the picture of that. And a couple of stories he got mentioned in and everything. And then he wrote back -- he didn't write back -- the head nurse at the nursin' home--she wrote the letter. And I was tickled to death that he's still playin' piano because now he entertains those old people, and they said they love 'im [him] - Buddy's one of the best-loved people in the nursin' home, etc. He's 70 years old and he's kaput. He's an alcoholic. That's what ended his last marriage. But he can still play the piano and entertain. And he plays a lot of piano -- but no[t] [the] trumpet no more [anymore]. No--harmonica – no[t] nothin’ [anything].

He's one of my favorite people. He was a piece of the glue that you had to have to keep the boys together. He played with us about 4 or 5 years. And then the irony of it is when I moved to Louisville, he built my brick porch. He was workin' for a contractor here in Louisville, and he says, “by God, I didn't know you were livin' here.” I says, “yeah.” He said, “well, I've been out of touch -- I've been doin' masonry work ever since. It's for this builder here he liked my work and that.” He says, “I did a job for him and here you are here.” I says, “I want a job, too.” I says, “but it isn't trumpet player or nothin.’” I said, “piano either.” I says, “I'd like for you to build a side porch for me. Like dis [this] exactly like dis [this],” -- this used to be a porch at one time.

And I used to do dat [that] -- and that's when we released “Bonaparte's Retreat'' and he used two guys to sit up and hit the jug and talk and ... like two guys, three guys will do - and Lydia would help us. She mailed out at least 75-100 cards, addressin' to disc jockeys all over the United States, and had a stamp Bonaparte's under this thing (??) [chuckles]. It says, “Bonaparte's coming your way,” - that was the heading. [chuckles] That's the way we promoted the song. It had to be done.

Buddy was not on the recording we did of that. He just come [came] over to the house and spent time with us. But he was already an alcoholic then. That's a shame. He was very talented. And I liked him despite the fact. And he never sang with us, but now in the nursin' home, he sings. [chuckles] He's divorced from his last wife. She divorced him - she just couldn't take it anymore. That was his fourth wife. He didn't leave our band because he was drinkin' too much -- he wanted to go back to Missouri where he came from. And I guess he had two wives from Missouri at one time or [an]other. Then he worked for me and he probably didn't divorce either one of 'em [chuckles]. People can really mess up their lives and mess up other people's lives, too. Make it a hard way to go because just one bad apple in the barrel will spoil it, you--.

I've done some work with Merle Haggard, and I like Merle very much. In fact, he was one of the first West Coast people that I got to meet when I went out dere [there]. He was workin' for a guy called Buck Owens, and he was playin' at a tavern – somepin [something] like Do Drop Inn -- a blackboard (??) they called it -- at Bakersfield.

And Merle knew my partner Charlie Adams, and he says, “why don't you bring Pee Wee outto the club tonight or tomorrow night when he's not doin' nothin’ [anything]?” Charlie says, “I

got a busy schedule goin.’” And when he come home, he says, “Would you like to meet Merle Haggard and Buck Owens?” I said, “sure.” I said, “how far?” He says, “well, we[‘ve] got to go to Bakersfield.” So, I said, “let's go.”

So, we took off and went to see Buck Owens, but Buck didn't show that day, so Merle came in. And it was very good for me because I (??) got to meet the band and I made friends with a guy called Frenchie; he was the piano player, and I played golf. I stayed overnight and played golf next day and had a lot of fun. Beautiful scenery them, [those] big mountains in the background and that golf course right dere [there] by the drainage ditch.

I did some socializing with some of these people in their homes, etc. Jimny Weakley was one of 'em, Leon McCall (??), Roy Acuff, Eddy Arnold - all went on the road – some of the guys over there they took us out to their house. Smiley Burnette--he entertained the whole band. Caesar's Salad [Caesar salad] was his favorite dish and he put out a Caesar's Salad this big [he demonstrates] and was stirrin' it.

In Nashville, all my friends were people in the business. Well, I met other people as I went along - church people and some of the union people that we didn't (??) socialize with -- like Owen Bradley, for instance. And whenever they played a banquet somewhere, I'd always get invited, bring the accordion and I'd do "Slow Poke" for 'em or "Tennessee Waltz," either one.

My friends now are in different professions - different walks of life. Here in Louisville, too. I'm goin' to the Fillies Ball Friday night, and it's put on by the Thoroughbreds. The Thoroughbreds are an association, and we do 3 or 4 fundraisers a year. I'm also knighted - I'm a knight. Knight Sir Pee Wee King [chuckles]. I'm also proud of the fact that I get called every now and then to be a grand marshal. I was a grand marshal at the regatta for about 4 or 5 years. Then I stayed away for a while, then I got called back recently. The Madison [Indiana] Regatta - the big boat race at Madison, Indiana.

And den [then] the other one -- Joe Ray Sprowles down in Hodgenville always has a big show for Lincoln Day celebration, because he doesn't want to compete with '"The Story

of Abraham Lincoln" -- the stage play they use dere [there]. So, he had me as the grand marshal for him twice [two] or three times.

And then I was at Birdseye, Indiana. I took my little grandson with me up there, and he was a hit with those little kids because dey [they] all dressed like the people on the television show "Little House on the Prairie." I used to call it "Little Outhouse on the Prairie." [chuckles] But he got the biggest kick out of it - it was all [of] them [those] little girls were dressed in those things -- and dere [there] he is - they all wave at him like that [he demonstrates]. I says, “(??) you got to get up and wave at 'em.”

He says, “oh, Pee Wee.” He said, “they don't know me.” I said, “Dey [They] do now. I says, “look

got you on a sign it says: “Pee Wee King, grand marshal.”” I said, “come on, get up with me.” So, he sat on the back of that Cadillac seat and waved at 'em, and you could pick out certain girls - 2 or 3 of 'em had Cokes for 'im [him] - waitin' for 'im [him] [chuckles].

My involvement in church work. Once a year dey [they] have a little play that they put

on - for somebody does somepin [something] to entertain one of the units of the church group.

And dat's [that’s] usually for the children - when they have about 15-20 kids - so Bob Kay always calls me, and I take the accordion, and we go down and Bob - that's back when we did television -- Bob was always dressed up as the sheriff and everything. But we don't do it now because we're just in the process of gettin' a new minister. This is St. John Lutheran Church on Breckinridge [Lane]. I'm a charter member -- the first one on Greenview Avenue and then the new one that's built - well, it's not new now no more [anymore] -- I forget [when it was built].

I was born a Catholic. Then I switched over to Lutheran later on in life, and then I was a Lutheran by marriage, too. I've been a Lutheran since -- my -mother and dad on the farm - there was no church but a Lutheran church there, and they joined the Lutheran Church instead of the Catholic. So, I've been a Lutheran 90 percent of my life. We weren't active in a church in Nashville - we didn't have time. When I [was] home, yeah, for Christmas, usually, or Easter or somepin [something] like that. But even den [then], we were called out.

I'm not active in the church now -- just a member. I attend services--communion. As far as my religious beliefs, I've learned a lot in being a Lueheran [Lutheran]. At first, bein' a Lutheran was just bein' a member of the churbh [church]. But I became more interested in it, and I listened to the sermons, and I'd bring 'em home -- they got copies of it for us. I take a bigger interest in it now than I used to, ‘cause all I knew was Easter - that Jesus rolled back the stone and that was it. I consider myself a believer - I have to --there ain't [isn’t any] no other way - where am I gonna turn to [chuckles]. I believe when you die there is some kind of hereafter because I figure this way, if there isn't a hereafter, then everything we're doin' while we're alive is worthless. What did you leave behind to be remembered by - that's the way I look at it. The hereafter is what you're remembered by. That's my belief. But I think each person will survive in some way -- some form. Whether he's a good carpenter or whether he's a star or whether he's a bookkeeper, I don't care - if he makes a good livin' for himself and a good life, what else is dere [there]? So, I hope there will be some kind of continuation after this life.

I don't know if I'll see people in this life who've died. There’s no way to tell. I have to believe I will - like I might see my parents again. The special ones are my parents and Lydia's parents because those four people were [the] most instrumental in my later life. But as far as the rest of the relatives well, just like yesterday comin' home. When we got through Lansing, and all at once it cleared up. Lydia was drivin' -- I says, “Lyd - for you.” I says, “Thank God.” She says, “yeah, the sun's shinin' and that.” And when we got to Indianapolis, my God- we got hit with a deluge! I says, “Lord, you could stop that now [chuckles].” I says, “someone must have a lot of power here in Indianapolis when it rained.” Boy, it was a deluge in Indianapolis -- all the way down. And then it stopped when we got - it slowed up a little when we got home.

There are also other people besides my parents and Lydia's parents who I'd like to see after I pass on. Some of my friends - show business friends - I miss a lot of 'em, including my former partner Charlie Adams. He was like a right hand to me. He was 72 when he died. When we sold the companies to Gene Autry, why den [then] he got a job from Gene runnin' the record company - Gene Autry's Republic Records. So, he had a new life created for him by us sellin' that, and he worried about de [the] music bidness [business]. And he got to travel around more than otherwise he wouldn't [have] got[ten] the opportunity because Gene said, “you got to get me a stable full of good Country-Western stars.” And that was his job.

My stroke was in 1978. I remember havin breakfast at home - this was here in Louisville. And I called Redd and the Collins Sisters, and I said, “you guys ready to go?” He said, “whenever you are, King.” So I took the station wagon, went up there, got 'em and up to Indianapolis to Bobby Helms's park -- he had a country music park. Bobby Helms was a rock 'n' roll singer. Not rock 'n' roll per se but he had that particular class of music when he recorded "My Fraulein" and ... well, that's one of

the big records ... I should know all three of 'em. But anyhow, he hired us as a '40s celebration.

It started on a Sunday, July 1 July 2, 3, 4 - so he says, “why don't you guys just stay here, and we'll take it for four days.” I says, “ok.” He said, “do I get a break in price?” I says, Oh, sure (??).

So, it was misting, when we got to Indianapolis, and I checked in to the hotel. The Holiday Inn. And I noticed when I was signin' the register that I couldn't hold the pen and I was writin' small. I started out with big letters, and they got ... And I said, “there's somepin [something] wrong.” And the desk clerk said, “what is it, Mr. King? I said, “I don't know -- I got a funny feelin'” And he said, “well, it'll probably pass.” And he said, “well, you want to go see a room?” I said, “no, we're gain' out to the

park.” He said, “What park?” I said, “Bobby Helms's park.” He said, “WEll, you better get

out tere [there] because if it's gonna rain and if it’s gonna [rain it will] come down pretty hard, you'd better find a shelter.”

So, sure enough, we got dere [there] and boy, it was comin' down pretty heavy. So, we

each had their [our] own trailer for dressin' rooms. So, Bobby said, “I was gonna open with Jeannie Pruitt, but she's got that hat called "Satin Sheets and Satin Pillows.” Says, “open with her and then put you on and then Ernest Tubb can close it.” And he says, “will you emcee for me?” I said, “sure.” He said, “well, then you'll have to open it, because Jeanie isn't here and Tubb isn't here.”

So, I said, “ok,” and we went out and did about 15-20 minutes, and I introduced Redd, and he was ready to sing, and I said, “well I'm gonna do "Deck of Cards."” And I tried to put my accordion down and I picked it up again and I said, “what the heck?' There's somepin [something] wrong with me -- I can't even pick the accordion up anymore.” And I fumbled with the cards and everything. I said, “Stewart, you better take it over.” So, he says, “what's wrong?” I said,” I don't know. I got dizzy and stumbled down the stairs like a drunk,” -- I guess they thought I was drunk - and hit the tree. And about that time, who should I see -- Ernest Tubb's bus pulled in right by me. He said, “King, what's

the matter? Come on in and you sit down in that driver's chair.” And I said, “no, I'd better go find a dressin' room - I don't feel good.” He says, “you don't look good either. He says, “you want me to take you to your dressin' room?” I said, “no, it's the last trailer up there about - just about 70-80 yards from here.”

So, I went and stumbled around and got in there and next thing I knew I flopped down on the bed - don't remember a thing (??) until Redd woke me up and said, “come on, King, we're goin' down to Louisville.” He said, “you've got a stroke.” And that was it.

And I said, “what about the other three days?” I says, “you want to stay up here

and work 'em?” He said, “we're not worried about that -- come on, just get in the car.”

And Redd brought me home. He drove me down, to Louisville, and brought me here to the

house, and the Dr. Bizer lives across the street. And Lydia called him. And then he

come [came] by. He said, “yep, let's go to the hospital right now.” And that was it.

And there was a little plaque right behind my ear, and it was too close to the brain to operate. I went to the MRI ting [thing] - what do you call it – image? They says, “it's a little plaque back there - that's all you can see. It's like a pencil point. They said, “I don't think you'll have too much trouble - maybe it'll go away. Maybe it'll dissolve itself or somethin.’” I said, “ok.” So, he said, “you[‘ve] got to stay home for at least six weeks, so we can't go anywhere.”

So then that weekend of Fourth of July I had booked up somewhere in New England

-- a coupla [couple of] dates up dere [there]. And Redd's father-in-law went with them to help drive and everything. And he took the station wagon and that was it. So, he played the dates for me. He played the dates, and we knew (??) Johnny Russell to substitute. I knew Johnny very well and he was always a jolly-good kid. And I talked to the doctor, and I says, “will you let me call down dere [there] and see if I can locate 'im [him].” He says, “well, you can.” He said, “you gonna charge?” I said, “I[‘ve] got a credit card.” He said, “ok.” So, I couldn't get hold of Johnny Russell at the phone number that he gave me, so I called Redd. I says, “Redd, call Acuff-Rose Publishing Company because they publish his songs -- maybe they'll give ya a new number.” Probably an old number I had. And he says, “ok.” That's what they got - Johnny Russell to take my place. I was calling from the doctor's office.

I wentin [went in] the hospital. I was there all of July, August, September, October, and most of

November -- about five months. They said, “we'd rather you stay here because if somepin [something] did happen, we'd like to be right on top of it.” Dr. Bizer suggested that I do it that way. Wait - he let me come home Labor Day and I stayed home until Thanksgivin' [Thanksgiving].

So from early July to Labor Day, I was in the hospital, and I was at home from Labor Day to Thanksgiving. And the reason I remember that [is] because one of the bookin' agents -- one of my favorite bookin’ agents had booked the furniture convention at [the] airport in Chicago - the Chicago Convention Center - great big hall - and Vic didn't know about me havin' that stroke till he called home here, and he says, “Pee Wee, remember that he's got to play that date up here in Chicago?” And I says, “tell 'im [him] I'll be ready.”

I called the doctor. I says, “can I go play a date?” He says, Where [are] you goin?” I says, “Chicago.” He said, “how [are] you gonna get there?” I said, “drive. They [are going to] gonna drive me. And I want to do 5 or 10 minutes on the show just to make an appearance, and I'll turn it over to the rest of the show, 'cause we got enough show up there.” And he says, “ok -- I 'm no further than the telephone - just remember if anything happens.” And then I forget there was [were] two shows, so I did ten minutes on the first show and ten minutes on the second show. And I got back, and I called the doctor. I says, “see, I got by easy.” I said, “all I did was 10 minutes.” He said, “ten minutes? You got all right?” I said, “I didn't have to play the accordion or nothin' [anything] - just talk and tell a couple of jokes and--.” He says, “well, how'd you do?” I says, “fine, the first show was better, but the second one I had to scramble.” “Second one?” he said, “you got two?” [chuckles] He said, “you dog, you liar -- you promised me.” I said, “well, I didn't have nothin' [anything] to call you about so I thought I'd wait until I got home and tell ya.”

I was taking a risk, though/ to me, it was a slight stroke instead of a damaging one where they put ya [you] in a wheelchair - like Minnie -- I just can't believe it hit her dat [that] hard because she's got the stamina of a football player. She's lost her speech; I'm sure she's not too well coordinated. She's in a wheelchair and she's got 24-hour-a-day nursing. But I didn't have any problems like that. I got to knock on wood [he demonstrates]. I said, “I thank God all that,” -- so many times I used to – I even told Redd to call Kris Kristofferson (??) - tell 'im [him], “you[‘ve] got to get those BMI (??) performances money for me.” He says, “why?” I said, “every morning I say, why me, Lord?”

I didn't have any subsequent attacks. Just that one time. This was in Indianapolis, at the park. I just passed out completely. I passed out for the length of the show. They did the show -- I'd say about 45 minutes to an hour. So that was it. Then they brought me down to Louisville.

I stayed in the hospital a long time for observation. There were two or three doctors on my case. The doctor here - Dr. Bizer - was one of the doctors. And Dr. Fowler was another doctor. And Dr. Weiss was another one. All three of 'em were involved in it somewhere. They gave me medication - nitrate pills. So my heart was affected somewhat. I never had any other problems after that. [He knocks on wood].

I think this way about that angina. That is my alarm clock. It's time to quit. Time to slow up a little bit, when that angina hits me. I have still angina. It's a tightness there [he demonstrates], and they tell ya [you] it's similar to a heart attack, but you can tell the difference, as long as you control it with your nitrate pills. I take those whenever I need 'em - when I get overexcited or overtired or overworked or that. But so far, thank God again, you know - nothin' bothers me. Once in a while I put myself through a couple of strains or stresses but it's needless, and I say, “what the hell - just -- I don't need this,” you know. I do pace myself. I weighed 169 at that time; I think that was the biggest cause, too. I now weigh 147--145 -- 146. But probably since Easter - Easter Bunny [chuckles] -- and about three Easter suppers -- yeah, by gosh –I think I weighed 148 the other day. But I don't take a lot of engagements now.

I found a doctor -- his name is Dr. Glazer (??) - out on the south end -- on Bardstown Road -- and he became our regular physician. And I touch base with Dr. Fowler once in a while, and I touch base with Dr. Bizer 'cause he lives across the street from me. And then Dr. Fox is my brain-scan doctor, and I was takin' medication from him—Dylatin (??) -- and I noticed every time I was takin' Dylatin, towards after about 3 or4 [or 4] years, I started havin' heartburn. It wasn't agreein' with me. He said, “you should take it – you[‘ve] got to build up that Dylantin 'cause that's the best thing that will be for your brain.” I said, “ok.” So, a couple of time[s]; I wentaway [went away] from home to play somewhere, and I forgot my Dylantin, but I didn't forget my angina--I mean my nitrate. And I noticed I got along a lot better. I could eat my meals when I wanted to. I could eat breakfast. And if I skipped a meal, later it wouldn't bother me. So, I went and told Dr. Fox that, and he says, “well, it's takin' a chance but,” he says, “try it.” See and go without for a while yet. And about two years ago, as we left for Florida, [chuckles] by gosh, I got dizzy. So, I called -- Dr. Fox prescribed some airplane dizziness pills for me. He said, “I don't tink [think] you should go - don't go back to the Dylantin -- just forget it.” So, he gave me those to take and Lydia had that whole trip to drive - she drove 1,500 and 70 some miles to Florida and going to make across the Alligator Alley to St. Petersburg and then back home.

And when I got home, I called Dr. Glaser. I said, “everything turned out all right. No sweat.”

I don't know what I'd [have done] doe without Lydia. Just like now when we went up to Michigan,

she drove part of the way, then I drove, and towards the end she was gettin' kind of sleepy because she was tired that day -- she did a lot of packin' and everything.

So, I took it from Ft. Wayne all the way to Midland, Michigan. I went through Lansing and everything else -- she slept. So [a] couple [of] hours. We usually drive about half and half on a trip. Usually 100 150 miles a piece, you know. We stop - one of our favorite watering holes is a little place called Richard's Restaurant - it's like a Bob Evans type of place. Family style stuff. It's up in Auburn, Indiana. It's a little bitty restaurant, and man, they're packed and jammed packed all the time. So, it doesn't make any difference whether it's breakfast, or supper, or lunch -- I'll eat a big meal there.

Lydia's health is pretty good. Well, she has some hypertension stuff -- she's takin' her pills for it but outside of that ... And she's got her own blood-pressure taker that she checks on.

I'm not on a special diet. I don't worry about my cholesterol level (??) As long as - I don't look for trouble - so, whenever I take my blood pressure, I'll tell her ahead of time what I think it is, and it is -- within 3 or 4 or 5 points maybe -- 170 over 65, or 80, or 70 - 137 over 60 one time, [chuckles] and the nurse said, “are you sure you're alive?” I says, “no - why?” She says, “that's kind of low, Pee Wee. I'd build that blood pressure up a little more.”

I was really scared when I had the stroke. I didn’t feel I was gonna die – I was just scared to know --didn't know how they'd turn out - I'd never had a stroke before. I didn't know exactly what it was. Never did. I used to take it for granted that that's somepin [something] that comes to you whether you're 50 or 60 or 70. And then I made a joke out of it when I played golf a lot of times. They’d say, “you know, years ago--how about [come] you don't play golf no more [anymore]?” I said, “yeah, I gave it up.” He said, “well, I'll give you three strokes aside.” I said, “thanks - I had one already.” And he said, “you kid like everybody else does about dose [those].” He said, “you're lucky to be here.” I said, “I sure know that too. I still think I’m lucky to be here. Yes sir.”

I'm not afraid to die. When my time comes, I'll stand there but I'm in no hurry. I don't want to rush it. Let's say I'm more careful. Before, like when I'd say to de [the] band – we were somewhere up around New England or Washington, D.C. – and we got through with our show early that night -- we had probably a 7 o'clock show till about 8:30 and then we's [we were] through at 8:30. On a [In the] summertime, it's daylight. And I said, “boys, what do you want? You wanna shake in summer or make (??) the jump or you want ... you just add to your check and that?” They said, “oh, no, don't add it to the checks -- just give us cash [chuckles].” So, I says, “we'll drive straight through and everybody gets $10 a piece [apiece]. Otherwise, the hotel would have cost[ed] us more.”

I wouldn't do that now because I don't want additional stress. See, those boys were all -- I says, “you don't have to be a good musician to work for me -- just a good driver -- that's all. [chuckles]” And the funny part about it was- I was kiddin' 'em about it many times and I tell ya - Eddy Arnold had one of the worst wrecks we [ever] had -- two of 'em in a row in the mountains right out of

Asheville, North Carolina. Mr. Frank was ridin' with him, or Eddy was ridin' with Mr. Frank and

he wanted to drive on this winding road to Asheville. And we swapped with somebody. He come [came] in our car, and one of the guys in my car went with Eddy. And Mr. Frank says, “boy, that Eddy’s makin’ him curse like you had made the roads here (??).”

Sure enough, we come [came] up about 15-20 miles up the line dere [there] - and dere's [there’s] Eddy slumped over the wheel. And it's (??) he'd passed out. So, he ran into a big rock wall; fortunately, we went down to this side [he demonstrates] -- if he'd a gone on the other side, they'd a gone down .... I don't know whether he went to sleep or what. He didn't know either. It was at night.

And then he did fall asleep comin' from Vincennes, Indiana, comin' through Greenville, Indiana and dere [there] was a litty[little]-bitty light at the junction - crossroad - right in the middle of town - and right by a gramary [grainery]. And we used to stop there once in a while and switch drivers for the rest of the way home, and Eddy said, “aw, I’m gonna drive dat [that] far,” and then they said they'll trade places. We never got that far - the driver ran off the road into a basement. It took the underpinnings up - boy, it's a wonder we didn't get banged up more but that was it.

This is a very important one [brings out memorabilia from his career] -- I'm in the wax museum. The Music Valley Wax Museum in Mr. Hobb’s Nashville, right by the Palace Restaurant -- Ramada Inn. Did [Have] you ever see the picture of my likeness down there? The museum’s been open about four or five years. It's on McGavock Pike. There's a joke that goes with that. When Mr. Hobbs told me that he was gonna put me in the museum, and I played a date for him down there--he was president of the Music Valley Merchants Association. And then I did a free show for 'im [him] at the Palace Restaurant.

Every time I go down there, I do about four or five numbers for 'im [him]. So, a date finally come [came] around, and he says, “well, we're gonna have your statue”. I said, “my statue?” He

said, “yeah.” I said, “well, how much will it cost me? He says, “cost you? Nothing! Your friendship is what I'm worried about [chuckles].” He said, “you[‘ll] get the big head when they put you in the museum, by gosh!” And I says, “well, we'll wait and see.” So, after they got the likeness up there, he stood six inches taller than I have [am].

I don't know if they' re a little bit bigger than lifesize [life size] but I wasn't -- I said, “John, I can't take this.” I said, “my God, look at how big that guy is!” And I give [gave] 'em my Crown suit - one of the best suits I had. So, what happens [happened] was, the only thing we could figure out - cut off above his ankles [chuckles] and stick it in the floor down there and there he is right with me -- he's maybe about an inch taller. They did the original likeness from pictures.

Shotgun Red was the dummy that Ralph Emery talks to - a character. Marty Robbins was one of a kind. This was when Bill and I and Barbara were in New York. That's Barbara Mandrell. And Bill Anderson [looking at a picture]. We represented the country music stars - host Stan Siegal(??) -- New York City TV Talk Show -- WABC. And they [their] guy was doin' a talk show and at the same time playin' records. This was in 1980. I wasn't much larger then--than I am now, but my face was puffier. I'm more rested now and that makes a big difference.

I was nominated for the Hall of Fame [Fame] in '71. And I didn't get in the first year. Sometimes nominees get in the first year but it's unusual. I toured for Ralph Emery, Don Romeo -- Don Romeo Agency an Omaha bookin' agent--Omaha, Little Rock, Briceville (??) Rodeo .... I like to play rodeos because I get to call 'em - I introduce all the stars and all the ... I lost my voice several times because that's all the dust all the time. I'm like an idiot -- they hire me as a musician or entertainer, and I go out there and I want to emcee the damn rodeo but it's good experience. But I also play and do the show, too.

The Philip Morris Show here in Louisville. I worked it towards the end, I emcee most of it. But I had a good band - always used it - they had to have a 15- or 18-piece band there, and I had the band together -- put the band together. And we salute the different stars. And then when they saluted the big bands, we imitated 'em, and I got the library -- like Duke Ellington - his song we played – Cab Calloway-- we played his song -- Lionel Hampton -- we played his song - and some of the big

stars. This was April 30, 1971.

On March 7, I did a show with Loretta Lynn at the Indianapolis Music Hall. It was a sell-out. It's fun working with her - she's a doll. She works too hard – she puts her heart and soul in[to] it. And she's fragile - she's not a strong girl – not like Barbara, you know. Patsy was a strong girl. But Loretta's ... and Kitty's [both have] strong [strength]. I didn't realize all these years I've known Kitty -- she hasn't changed a bit. I'd say I've known her 45 years.

Loretta Lynn is genuine. She had a hard life. Mooney. [chuckles] She better be still with him – he won't let anybody try to take her away. He'd kill her – either one -- this isn't for the record. She's bound to love him - all these years. And kids and all. And they're living together still in Nashville--got a beautiful place. She works too hard -- she's so sincere, you know -- that's it.

Cincinnati Gardens, FOP sponsor, in '72. And Black Stallion Mascot Award -that's

one of the dinner clubs like the dinner club across in Indiana [Derby Dinner Playhouse]. The disc jockey was the leader of a band, and he invited me up there, and I went up to Cincinnati to the Black Stallion and got my (??) work -- it's a beautiful ... I don't know what happened to it.

And Jimmy Rodgers (??) Festival here. That's always on [in] October. Jamestown, North Dakota, Florida, Minnesota, - Clinton, Minnesota, that's a festival. Then I was nominated again in '73 for the Hall of Fame. And I didn't get in. I didn't get in until '74. It's a letdown when you don't get in. You wonder whether you're gonna be in the third time, you know.

“Tennessee Waltz," '73. Carousel ride dedicated next to Opryland. A beautiful merry-go-round. And they brought [it] in from Austria and put it up, and the[y] called it "The Tennessee Waltz" right next to “The Wabash Cannonball." And two days in Spencer, Iowa. And Acuff-Rose publication.

I did sports shows for Bill King in Louisville all the time. Emceed and entertained, too. Band and all. Nine days it runs. [It ran nine days]. October - a great night -- that's when it was - the Hall of Fame. That was a thrill. You don't find out about it [in advance] -- you have to be there. It's like

the Academy Awards - you don't know until, that moment. You don't know who's going in. Nobody knows except for two people -- the guys who cast the votes - and constables and the one who's puttin' on (??). You're selected for your contribution to Country Western music. There are 12 people who are [on] the nominating committee. And they each select 25 -- as much as 25 people -- each year. And then there's five that remain at the end of the year -- at the October thing. So, there are five finalists, and they know who they are - but who's gonna get it, they don't know. Only the five finalists out of the 25 come to the event, but the Opry House is full of people for the event.

They take one on the odd years and two on the even years. See what happened to us -- Owen Bradley went in, too - we tied -- the first time in the history of the Hall of Fame membership -- two guys tied it. Owen Bradley was the local band leader, and a staff piano band leader at WSM Radio, and one of the biggest publishers there, and he worked for Decca Records. That's his contribution. So, in the Hall of Fame, you have people who have made contributions in different ways.

Baltimore, Maryland - three days -- Buck Owens. That was done by the Jack McFadden

Agency. I was a guest on ''Hee Haw" under (??) - right after that. And I worked with Buck Owens and Roy Clark. Buck Owens is not on ''Hee Haw" anymore--they took ‘im [him] off -- he was controversial- very controversial. I don’t know he's back home in Bakersfield. He was on "Hee Haw" to begin with; his contract ran out. They didn't renew it. Everybody says it's a controversial situation. He couldn't get along with anybody. He was performing all right though. Roy Clark seems to be congenial - it's all he knows--what he is that's it. I worked with Roy Clark very often.

In 1975, the Philip Morris Show again. And Gene Autry -- KLAC - I went to the Academy Awards in '75. I was in the audience -- I was a guest with Charlie Adams and Autry and I and his wife, and Lydia. And we were also out there for Ridgeway Music. And then Ky. Sports Flair again. Tom T. Hall was there. He was a star then -had been for a longtime [long time]. There's [the] Minnesota State Fair with Dolly Parton, and also Iowa oh, that's that Fairfield, Iowa -- the Threshing Machine Owners - they try to find the oldest ones still in operation, and they bring their tractors and their threshin' machines dere [there]. It's an antique farm machinery show. Dolly had broken [up] with Porter Waggoner by this time -- '75; she had her own show then.

Another (??) sports show. Springfield, Illinois, in '76 - state fair. Recording Katel (??) - that's a record company that puts together shows for radio stations. Redd-Pee Wee King. Phil Wrigley. Jim Halsey dates - a whole bunch of 'em – (??)--all over the country.

In '77, the Western Film Festival. That's where guys like George Montgomery and Lash Larue (??) and all [of them] get together. And each one has an individual day there for a week. This was in Charlotte, North Carolina. We been to four or five [of] 'em – Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina. And Crusade for Children -- I've worked several years for that – off and on; I performed as a star. I have orchestrations for the band. And then the Madison Regatta. Three shows for the grand opening of Mesquite Mall in Dallas. Oh, my -- what a mall - Jesus' As far as your eye can see, it's dat [that] big. And den [then] dey [they] take and book ya in different places that attract a crowd in there. Boy, what a beautiful mall [--the most beautiful mall] I've ever seen. And I had my band with me in the mall and we played about 30 minutes a piece [apiece] -- I'd say we did about 2 and a half hours, five different sets – we were there for a couple of days.

Then the stroke in '78 -- July 1. And recuperating from it that year. In '79, I leave for California for Ridgeway. Jimmy Weakley, Rex Allen. And this is the l3rgest fair in Maine'—Fryburg (??), Maine Fair. It's a state fair. That is the state fair in Maine. And Truckers Show -- that was just like they had here not long ago -- the truckers -- oh, Kenworth (??) and - we entertained at the truck show at the fairgrounds here in Louisville. And gas rationing in '79 - we had trouble getting’ gas, and Ernest Tubb was a smart guy -- he wouldn't play a date unless they filled his gas tank [chuckles) - I mean comin' home.

I had some deals like that. Yeah, I'd give away tickets to the show back in the early days when we really had gas rationin' [rationing]-- the hard way -- I used to stop at a remote service station, say, “you folks plannin' on comin' to the Grand Ole Opry show?” Says, “sure will, by gosh (??)” And I said, “well, how'd you like the passes to get in with your families?” “Fine. So, what I have to do?” I says, “fill me up with gas.” I had a Cadillac -- oh, my God got five gallons of gas without (??) coupons. And in '79, I got some gas that way. I exchanged passes for gas.

Robbery. All [of the] instruments and wardrobe [were] stolen. Checked into the Holiday Inn at the park -- Sunset – West (??) We checked into the motel and there was a security guy--I wondered why we were put on the ninth floor because the rooms were all sold out - it was a big Polack wedding. And the security guy was in the wedding. So, during the time we checked in, which was about 10, 11 o'clock at night, and then, 6 o'clock in the mornin' we had to get up - they cleaned us out. I mean everything! Wardrobe, instruments, and the whole works. Never found the instruments-- borrowed instruments from people around town. And we had to buy everything new later. This

was in 1979.

[At the end of the interview session] I got to see a dog about a man -- I got to

Go [to the] library. I said that at Sonny's house and little Frankie said, “unbuckle (??) a library?! You went potty!'' [chuckles]