Oral History Interview with Pee Wee King

We did our interviews in a hurry last week and of course, Wednesday night, they said, “why, shoot all [of] them [those] big stars --all the present stars that are on the Grand Ole Opry.” [referring to a recent Nashville taping]

This is what the Country Music Foundation puts out -a book -and they tell you where you can write to get it. I talked to Ronnie Profitt, and I also talked to Kyle--the guy who puts the book out. And I said, “I want to give that to the man who's interviewing me for the book.” And he said, “well, it's about time.” Now, I got a negative answer, too, from the guy who just put out a book on --Clifty Stone used to work for Gene Autry run the publishing cos. He put out a book, and he says, “King, don't do like I did, it's now in the hands of the distributors and there ain't [isn’t] nobody [anyone] buyin' it.” You can't make people buy anything -it's advertising and marketing. I had my ears open for this because Ron said there’s one company that distributes the books and Randy Travis' book only sells for $8.95 -210 pages, paperback.

We went dawn to Nashville [recently] and they put on a special television show, and now it has to be edited. It's gonna run 2 hours. [It] Was produced and directed by the Country Music Foundation CEO --the big man-Bill Ivey. And then they imported a Hollywood, California director and he knew his things to do. It wasn't as slipshod as people would think -a guy comes in here from California--he doesn't know any of us--he's rather young --but then Bill Ivey, who's the president of the Country Music Foundation, or the curator, he knows the people he wants to feature. Because he's right on top of it all the time. He gets calls from their management to bring a memorabilia in for a museum. Sometimes he don't [doesn’t] take one because they don’t have any room for it. Or else he says, “I'll take it,” and we have to sign an agreement that they carry it out to the warehouse until we find room for it. And it's stored and there’s security. It's great security at the warehouse out there -it's a concrete building with only one door in it and it's a metal door.

But people like Roy Acuff --they wouldn't give [say] a no to because his fiddle is worthwhile -he's got two or threeof [three of] 'em that he puts in the museum that he's got which is very, very loaded up with stuff, too. Roy Acuff in Nashville, Tennessee -right by the Opryland. He's got his museum and theater there. They film a lot of television shows that are intimate type of things -for a small act, small band or small star or a new star. The big auditorium -the Grand Ole Opry -is about 4,700 seats. It’s packed and jammed to the rafters.

And the title of the show is "Silver Anniversary of the Country Music Hall of Fame Members." And the oldest one that was there was Jimmy Davis, and he's 93 years old --former governor. He lives in New Orleans. And he's doing a good job. He and his wife Anna who travels with him all the time, and they do gospel things, too. They help out politically doin' a couple of gospel numbers for people down there.

I met him years and years ago -I'd say at least 40 years ago, when he was governor-- I met him down there, and we had good visits then. And since then, we've been very close. Well we write to each other every Christmas and exchange notes and that. His most famous song is "You are my Sunshine.” That's what he sang -that was the closing number of the show for our part--de [the] Hall of Fame members. But they interspersed it with different -well, Kenny Rogers was the host. And then Barbara Mandrell joined 'em towards the end --she introduced the dancers -and the band with Johnny Gimbel.

They interchanged --once in a while they'd let one of the girls introduce another girl. And I was so proud because Kathy Matteo (??), who was a new star, and she come [came] to me in the dressin' room; she said, “I want to tell ya something,' they told me that I'm gonna sing "De [the] Tenn. Waltz.”” I says, “my gosh, I'll have my chance to get even with Mr. King.” So, on the stage she said, before she sang "The Tennessee Waltz" -they gave her a few seconds to talk and introduce herself --and she said, “I'm proud to be able to introduce Pee Wee King. And he is a co-writer of "Tennessee Waltz" and Redd Stewart his partner. But let me tell you somethin’--when I first came to Nashville, I was a tour guide at the museum in the Hall of Fame. And there was that happy-smile man come in there like a little boy -he walked up right to the desk and said, “what's your name, young lady?” And he grinned all over the place and said, “Kathy Matteo.” He says, “good -what are you doing -gonna be a singer?” She says, “I am a singer.” And I says, [Is] Dere [there] anything you want advice about touring people around because that's a tremendous job you got on your shoulder, and if you don't know what you're supposed to say about 'em, maybe on some of 'em I can give you some help.”

And he left, never saying what his name was. I didn't tell her. Then, when she got through, she said, “now I want to dedicate this to Pee Wee King especially and his charming wife in the audience.” She got a big hand she's a wonderful artist.

I was pleasantly surprised with a young lady I've known all her life --practically. Mel Tillis' daughter Pam Tillis. She's a newcomer, and they gave her a good spot on the television show because they put her in the middle of the audience. And she sang a Patsy Cline song -the soundtrack was made already ''Walkin' After Midnight [midnight]" -and she belted it out. She proved herself Wednesday night, I’ll say that for her. I'd say she's been performing about 7 or 8 years -ever since she was a youngster. She's about 28 or 29.

Then Kenny Rogers came out and he was salutin' the Hall of Fame members, and he said, “you know -I wrote my first song by inspiration.” Says,” I was recording other people's songs, and I thought to myself, why can't I write a song?” So, he said, “the guys responsible for it are being recognized tonight, and I want to pay my respects to Pee Wee King, Curley Putnam,” and he named 3 or 4 others. But anyhow, I got a big kick out of 'im [him].

And then I wondered why a young lady in the aisle was gettin' so much attention. All these kids -high school age and younger -were gathering around this good-lookin’ woman. And we found out later -in about an hour or so -when they had a little intermission and put the lights up -that it was Michelle Lee from the series "Knotts Landing." And she's a good singer herself. And she bounced and rolled and rocked with all the types music. And then when the dancers came out there, she was really beside herself to close the show with Barbara Mandrell and all of them. She watched them like a hawk --and I tell ya --she enjoyed it. But her husband was a co-director on the show.

The Country Music Foundation produced the show for CBS or possibly TNN [Turner News Network], I don't know yet. It hasn't been sold, but I'm sure it'll be within the next couple of days. They're dickering on it now.

We made tapes add [and] they're going to edit that into a two-hour show. It will feature members of the Country Music Hall of Fame such as me plus the top artists of today. Some of the current artists included Allen, Jackson, Clint Black, Ramy Travis, everybody love ‘im [him.] When I played Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, he was there the night before sponsored by the Shrine. And we come [came] in the next day, and we were sponsored by the police and sheriff's department of Canada. And there was a note for me in an envelope; this man come [came] back stage and said, “Pee Wee, I got a note for ya.” And it was from Randy Travis. Says, “I want you to know I plugged your two shows tonight. And he says, “when you come by Nashville next time, you can thank me if you want to [chuckles]. “Then when I got to Nashville, I tried to call his office and I couldn't get no [an] answer from anybody, his secretary wouldn't tell me -so I left word. So, I met his wife last night or Wednesday for the first time; his wife is his manager; she discovered him. Her name is Olivia. She owned the nightclub in North Carolina and that's how come [how he came into] he got into de [the] business.

Of course, he was a cheap catfish fryer for Mr. John Hobbs at the Palace Restaurant --that's where he was workin' to get his break. That was right behind the Grand Ole Opry. So, he went to Nashville hoping to get a break and supported himself by frying catfish -and very good. Mr. Hobbs said he was a very good attraction not only as a fish fryer, but he also went on stage with the boys in the band and sang. And that's where he got his break. He worked for his wife in the club in North Carolina, and she was the one who brought him to Nashville. She said, “it happens in Nashville. If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere.”

Some of the other younger ones featured on the TV show we taped are Travis Tripp (??), Vince Gill, Kathy Matteo, Peggy -the girl from Kentucky. I think these younger stars are doin' a great job -they must be or they wouldn't be on the charts all the time. Garth Brooks and Reba McIntire weren't there. Loretta Lynn was sick, and she didn't come. And of course, Minnie Pearl couldn't come. I didn't have a chance to see her, but I called her husband and told him we were in town. He said there was no change at all in her condition. She's still in de [the] wheelchair and has a 24-hour nurse, around the clock.

Jones, Roy Acuff, Gov. Davis, Floyd Tilghman -"I Love You So Much It Hurts" -Jimmy Dickens. He said he's having a little trouble with his arthritis in his shoulder; he said, “Dad, I just don't run around like I did before.” I said, “you're killing yourself on the road now. He calls me "Dad." 'Cause my band used to back him up when he didn't have a band, but now he carries a regular group all the time. We had a chance to visit and socialize.

We did a 20-minute set, then we had about an hour to kill while some of the other people were on. And then, we went out there for the finale, and we did that in about 30 minutes, of our part -with the interviews and black and white. Eddy Arnold didn't come but he came in for the interview.

Couple of days ago, Cliffy (?? ) Stone from Hollywood came in. Gene Autry was supposed to come but Gene couldn't make it. And Floyd Horton from New York -he came in -he's a Hall of Fame member. Chet Atkins was there. They had a cocktail party after the shoe was over, but see we filmed for about 7½ hours, so what happened was I was tired. We drove down to Nashville, and I got a room and then I thought Lydia could visit with her sister-in-law down there.

Her brother's [wife] --he's deceased now -Lydia and Margaret grew up together, practically. When she married Budd, and Lydia was married to me, we lived next door to each other, in Nashville. So, she said, “it's too late to call Margaret now,” -I wouldn't do it -so we went on the] de day [of the taping] and didn't even go to the reception or nothing [anything]. Because we were all together for 7 hours. We had a live audience --packed and jammed. They gave away 6 tickets per person, and they give your name and who your guests were. And that's the way it's going to be for Minnie Pearl comin' up -May 6th, they're giving her a live party but I don't tink [think] she'll be there. The president's coming and the vice-president, I think -I think two presidents are supposed to be there. And they're goin' to have pretty close security so if you get a package of six tickets, you got to in return mail their names and what day are you coming, and your seats are already reserved. That's for the Minnie Pearl tribute. That will be at the Opry House. I don't know whether that's going to be a radio show or a TV show-- -it's just in the embryo stage now.

The audience stayed there for 7 hours while we were taping. And they were just as loud as the first hour. They were a good group. It started about 5:30 p.m. and then it went on till about 12:30. I was beat. They have food there. We ate in Roy Acuff's theater; they put all de [the] food out there and if you wanted it, you went outside to the door into Roy Acuff's theater. And they had refreshments dere [there], coffee, tea and everything else.

But the taping was done all in the Opry House auditorium. I don't like to go up to the very last row -I get a nosebleed. You get a little dizzy. The first time they started having the guests backstage they always used to do an impromptu interview with the stars or star coming in, and they'd bring us upstairs way on the top floor. And then they would shoot the audience. All you'd see was the backs of the people and the stage. Said, “now when you get up on the stage, what are you gonna do?” And they'd shoot the stage and the audience, and then come back to the interview.

I played at the old Ryman Auditorium. The facilities there were Grand Ole Opry style. As the people knew it from the beginning, it was an old auditorium built by a [a steamboat captain???] Navy man--I forget his name. But anyhow, it was built after the Civil War. The balcony started from the half-way mark and went all the way up but there weren't quite that many seats. And dey [they] didn't fix the leaks in the roof -the roof used to leak. Not on the stage but out in the audience. And backstage was just a stage and that's all. The dressing room facilities were nothing --like two closets put together. Had bad restrooms back there. They were outmoded. Not the facilities you'd expect today but of course, we knew that, and we went along with everything.

The fact you were in the Ryman Auditorium and working the Ryman Auditorium and bein' on the Opry -when you left, you put your instrument in the case and went out the alley --parked in the back --walk up the alley and you’d stop usually and look back at it, in case somebody that you knew was comin' by or somebody said they'd meet you back at the alley -wanted to meet you and talk with you a while. You'd make the remark --you'd turn around and say, “Well, I did the best I could, Lord.” That's like being in church on Sunday –Saturday night was a church night on Sunday.

And Loretta Lynn's got the best joke of all on that part. She come [came] over to the boys' side of the dressin' room and--and she said, “Roy, I want to see you.” And Roy says “ok. I'll be out. She says “no, after tee show.” And he says, “Well where should I meet ya?” She says, “in the alley [chuckles]. That's right -that's where you met all the time.

Of course, most of the musicians, 90 per cent of them -would go right to Tootsie's and the alley was right there. That's a meeting place for the Opry even some of the girls--they'd drink a beer once in a while. And get refreshment. But it was also like a testimonial to support the Grand Ole Opry people because they write [wrote] their name[s] on the wall, Pee Wee King sat here. And then they'd put "Tennessee Waltz" under it and all that. Tootsie's is still there but I'm afraid it's going to be torn down for the new Broadway look, with outdoor restaurants -French style. Little cabarets (??). Some of the other buildings are going to be kept like they were restoration is going on right now but I don't know the date the Broadway project will be--.

Tootsie's is still open to the public. It was a regular tavern. Had room for 2 or 3 people to get up on stage and sing when they wanted. I never played there heck, no --I didn't have time. But a lot of people who were tryin' to break into the business performed there. They wanted to be heard and says, “I can meet you at Tootsie's.” And Tootsie would let 'em go up there and play. If they couldn't play at the Opry, they'd play at Tootsie's. A lot of stars played at Tootsie's. When they were hungry, they'd get about $20 or $30 from Tootsie; she'd loan 'em the money and say, “now you pay me back, when you come back from a tour.” And they did. I never had to borrow money from her, but some that did were the Bales Brothers, I think, and a couple of the acts that weren't quite as popular as the other ones.

I lent money to other stars. Sometimes you never know what happens because a lot of times --one time I remember Crash Craddock was coming up to work a date with us in northern Pennsylvania and his bus broke down. And he said, “I just brought enough money --I didn't think my bus was gonna cause me this much trouble.” And the guy said, (??). And Crash was just startin’ out in de [the] bidness [business] then. And he had six-seven boys with 'im [him] and they had to take his word for it. And the man drove 'em to the building where we were playin' -the auditorium -but then when the night was over, he waited for Crash to bring the cash to him. The money that he got for playin' de [the] date plus what I let him have is [has been] how he got his back on the road. He was not part of my group but playing on the same bill. Usually, they put on three acts together. This happened in York or Johnstown, Pennsylvania, maybe -I can't remember.

I myself usually had more luck financially. My father-in-law was ahead of me usually on dates. He was the guy who would hire the ticket seller and all that, so we'd know in advance how far to go and whether we had --sometimes we didn't make our guarantee. To get a snowstorm or when you go for a rain--out. But the Lord blessed me, I guess.

Tootsie was the wife of a singer; he was a very popular singer on a radio station in Nashville –WLAC, but he never got bigger than to go around the country and play big dates. He worked a little at high schools and festivals around Nashville. I think she was from Nashville. She looked like a housewife; she acted like she was a big mother to all of 'em. And sometime[s], they'd cry on her shoulder, and she'd listen to their troubles. I think she's passed away about two years ago.

And that was the same thing --the woman who lived across the street from me she took in all the boarders Klaus (??) Smith and all when they came to town --and she run [ran] a boarding house for 'em. Her name was Mom Upchurch -lived on Boscobel St. right across from me. That was in Nashville. Boscobel—it’s within walkin' distance of the tabernacle --the Father Owens (??) Street Tabernacle. The tabernacle was about the 600 block, and we were about the 800 block.

Tootsie made a good living. She knew how to keep the place runnin' and keep in good order. And as far as I can remember, I don't think they had one difficulty with anybody. No fights or anything. Now if there was [were] fights, it had to be in the alley. She served food there --the best sandwiches you ever had. Roast beef sandwiches and that. Barbecue was very popular, too.

And then what happened to me when I had my Hitchin' Post up the road in Goodlettsville highway, and Hitchin' Post was about six miles from town, some of the boys wouldn't stop at Tootsie's –[they] would come up to the Hitchin' Post. Mrs. Carnahan would fix 'em sandwiches and beer, they'd put a whole tab on 'em till they got back. Some of 'em came back and paid regular and others didn't. Tootsie would put food on the tab for people, too; there were several guys. When they first started, our boys down dere didn't have --they lived from one day to the next.

"Gold Mine in the Sky" was the movie I made with Gene Autry. That's the one he promised he'd use us in --the first big money maker for him on Broadway. The first time the big New York Broadway theaters were playin' his picture. Up until then, he was just [a] musical cowboy, or [a] singin' cowboy. This was not his first movie, but his first big one. About five or six movies before that, we didn't get called, but then when he had "Gold Mine in the Sky," it was such a big song that he said, “I might as well get Pee Wee and the Golden West Cowboys here.”

On the credits, it says, “J.L. Frank's Golden West Cowboys,” he organized it. See, I went up to Milwaukee and brought those three people down. And in the meantime, when I was getting them ready to join the Golden West Cowboys, he was gettin' a couple of people down in Tennessee to work with him, too. He got a guitar player -Milton Estes from Middlesboro, Kentucky-- -and Abner Sims from Corydon, Indiana, who played the fiddle. Called him "the fastest fiddler in the world." It was just for the movie then that the group was known as J.L. Frank's Golden West Cowboys, because we hadn't been organized long enough. So, this was one of the first things we did as a band.

I'm on the stagecoach in the movie. The stagecoach was there waitin' to take off and comin' around the bend and bringin' back the guests from the depot, and they were inside the stagecoach. But when I come [came] to be in the set-up, I had my rhinestone accordion. That's the first time they ever put rhinestones in [on] an accordion. Up in Milwaukee, when I bought the accordion, I was proud of it---that was the first thousand-dollar accordion. I didn't ask them to do that [e]specially for me. The powers to [that] be weren't there yet. And Smiley Burnette said, “I'll tell you what we'll do, kid. We'll put you up dere [there] -we'll lift you up -and then we'll put your accordion there, then we'll put straps for you down on the seats --you'll bounce around and that but hang on for dear life and play that accordion because right down the front of it in p. rhinestones, you've got "Pee Wee."” And I said, “ok, that's good with me.”

So, about that time, the director, Harry Knight, came by. He says, “Pee Wee, what are you doing up there?” He says, “you got to come down.” I says, “I can't, Mr. Knight I’m strapped in.” Of course, I couldn’t explain how I was strapped in this way across de [the] waist, then on my shoulders and the accordion was strapped in with me. And he says, “you're bound to fall off of that --have you ever ridden on a stagecoach.” I said, “no, sir, but I'm goin' to try.” I said, “I'm goin' to make a movie and I'm goin' to be seen in a movie.” And he said, “well, go ahead --forget it. But hang on for dear life. We don't want nothin' [anything] to happen to you.” So, I did.

I was way up high with the driver. The two of us were up there by ourself [ourselves]. The fellow that was drivin' the horse said he'd be very careful -Joe Uruguay --and he was the first double for Autry before George Montgomery came in-did a picture at dat [that] time. So, Joe Uruguay and -they rented the horses to the movie company --and he says, “I grew up with horses and I'm still with horses and I'll probably die with horses --but you'll be the first accordion player that ever rode next to me. [chuckles] In fact, I don't think we'd find another one.'' [chuckles]

But most of the time they wouldn't let you take an accordion out not one like that--because they figured them [those] little button jobs --that wasn't for me. This was a piano accordion – and (??) and the girls couldn't wear wristwatches and rings and here I am with a rhinestone accordion! It was too farfetched that I would have an accordion of that kind 'cause the Westerners never had an accordion like that. It was fun.

We did the soundtrack separately. We did the soundtrack in the studio. And [when] we came out there we had the accordion. We had to kind of pretend that we [were] playing--mimic it and lip-synch. I made sure they got some good shots of me. Because Smiley said, “and watch when they try to move you around like that, you[‘ve] got to turn around. And the first thing you know, you're out and they're shootin’ your head and they've got the face of the guy in front of you.” So, Smiley said, “you be careful about that.” But I think one of (??) was hep—I was there to make a movie, boy I tell ya. I wouldn’t have no for an answer.

Gene Autry come [came] in for a shot inside the tavern. And I was there with my white suit on, and he looked, he said, “kid, who told you to wear a white suit?” I says, “nobody--that's all I brought. I come from Nashville with -that's what I wear on stage.” He said, “I know you wear it on stage, but I’m the only one who wears a white suit in pictures! In my movie, anyway.” And I said, “oh, my -well, what should I do?” He said, “go up to the prop wagon and get yourself a costume from dem [them]”. I says, “Mr. A., way up on the hill --I ain't goin' to make it back in time to get,” I says, “that prop wagon won't have nothin' [anything in] my size--blue jeans or nothing.” He says, “well,

I tell you what --we'll figure this out.” He says, “we've got to have a piano man at the piano anyhow. So, you might as well go sit back there and make believe you're playin' and the piano will play accompaniment to this scene that we've got set.” I says, “thank you, sir.” I went back dere [there] and I watched the angle and I saw where the Gene and the leading lady would come in and be by the bar, and I figured, well, I know what I want to do --I just want to get screwed around a little bit and make believe I'm playin' like this [he demonstrates] [chuckles]. Got in there.

When Gene looked at me to start the band for the dance and everything else, I made 'im [him] come up close. I says, “with all the noise that's goin' on here, Gene, I can't hear.” He says, “if you holler Pee Wee at me, I'll have your attention and you say, 'Start the music.'” That's what he did. "Pee Wee --start the music."

A lot of these scenes ---especially those that the stars do --they have to be rehearsed. But for our part in "Gold Mine in the Sky," we didn't rehearse the music, the settings and that--that was all done on the spur of the moment. We set up a scene -5 o'clock call to be in a dressing room and have make-up. And the movies-- they don't just powder your nose and once in a while get the girl with the powder and tip it off. They put that make-up heavy--like you're a cowboy, you know. So here I am with a white hat, tool --I thought Gene would [for] sure make me take it off but he didn't.

We'd sit around and then when chow was called around noon --I imagine sittin’ from 6 or 7 till noontime. Then they'd ring the bell, “chow call.” I And you'd go out there all made up and you hadn't done a thing' [chuckles) -waitin' for the scenes to go by and see whether they are in sequence. And we got a big kick out of it Be it as it may, I'd do it again. Which I did do it again! Hurry up and wait most of the time.

They gave you a script. There are certain parts you didn't get through which didn't involve you. Naw we were up at Bear Mountain, filmin' the show, and it was too far to go back to Hollywood, so they'd feed us out there. And we had off one day, and we started playin' cards, and about the time that we did --you got in a good card game or dice game -somebody would holler, and they had the wrong script. They'd say, “Pee Wee King and the band --we need you right now.” And we'd hurry up and gobble up our food, then come into the tavern where dey [they] were shootin' each other. And they said, “what are you doin' here?” Says “the call girl gave us a call; we come [came] down here to see what you wanted.” And Mr. Knight would say, “we don't need you -go back where you were.” It was lack of communication sometime[s], but actually it was good because it kept you in a mood at least you’re wanted and havin' fun, you know.

On my accordion it says, "Pee Wee." On the front of it, just Pee Wee. Probably on the side of it--it says my whole name. I saw that camera and I was smilin' to beat the band --and singin.’ We backed up Smiley in the bunkhouse; I am playing the accordion.

Smiley Burnette was such a genius that he made up songs for certain scenes of the movie. And the one he thought about to fool that girl that time I'll never forget A big, heavyset girl and she was after Smiley, and he says, “Pee Wee, don't let that woman get next to me. We have to act -you know that don't you?” He says, “I'm not actin’.” [chuckles] But anyhow, that's how the bunkhouse scene started. I forget the song that we were doing in the scene, but it was a pretty cute song that he wrote. Smiley got credit for a lot of the music but Ken -the two brothers -wrote "Gold Mine in the Sky." And you notice Gene always in his movies has used the top song of de [the] country as a title for his picture and then it was built around it. He sings the title song early on in the picture when the man's dying, and he's kind of singin' that to him as he's dying.

There was another scene there -here I thought it might be (??) Autry –I didn't know he was goin' to be up on a log. And I saw Gene's double (??) was sittin' by the old man because he fell off his horse. And I said, “this is where it happens.” So, I got there behind that log, and I was goin' to see however I could sit. So, I told Milton, I says, “Milt, if there's some talkin', you do it over there --oh, and the other side of the fellow -the old man that's dyin'.” He said, “why, do you think they'd say somethin' to me?” I said, “yeah, you get paid extra for that.” So, he practices, “yes, yes, I will -I won't do it.” And he didn't ask 'im [him] to say a word' [chuckles]. And then I was on the picture completely --Cowboy Jack laid there the longest instead of me. I'm off the edges of the picture -the white hat was too noticeable. We didn't always know whether we'd have words to say in scene -not till rehearsal time. They'd rehearse some of the stuff they had to--for time and that.

On this other picture that we made with Johnny Mack Brown --that was a lot easier. “Flame of the West” was made in 1945. It was easier because it was a typical Western --the kind they usually make in 15 days. The contract for the--not the stars but the actors and actresses, cowboys and cowgirls, the call girls they're contracted for two weeks’ work. They gave you 15 days' pay.

"Gold Mine in the Sky" took longer to make. See, Gene fell off his horse and bruised his knee. It wasn't supposed to be a stunt. But he fell he lost his balance- --just enough to wear [where] he skinned his knee. So, the next day dey [they] didn't shoot at all and Gene went to the hospital downtown in Hollywood. And he came back two days later. So, they shot around- -it was a fight scene -that’s what it was. He jumped off the horse and he was supposed to fall with this guy right down the hill. And he wanted to do that because --first they set him up and said, “no, you wait till the stuntman does it.” And he says, “I'd rather try it myself, ‘cause he could jump out of the stirrips in a hurry.” Gene was a good horseman and he was a good fighter. But this time he got his legs crossed and fell on his knee. (??) third week then. He doesn't worry because the union pays the guys anyhow if they're on call or anything else. So, there we had a whole day off -all the cowboys and that.

They told a story about Gene one time. He was shootin' a picture [the] night before Christmas, and he actually hurt his elbows so bad that he didn't want to work anymore. He said, “I'm goin' to the hospital.” And he said, “you stay here and if I feel like it I’ll come, back in 2 or 3 days.” And Mr. Knight says -and a big man, I forget --but Harry Hecht (??) was their producer -and he said, “why don't you just go ahead, Gene, we’ll shoot around other stuff.” And then I found out -Smiley says, “now Gene really didn't hurt himself that bad.” He said, “I'll tell you right now what he did. He knew Christmas was comin.’ He made sure they'd have the holiday off and then work a day before New Year's Eve, so they'd get that extra money.” And he said, “he gave some of that extra money that they get in overtime.” That's the kind of guy he is.

They all loved to work with Gene. It was a joy. You could tell when you were around the crew --everybody was cooperative. Just like our fiddle player Abner Sims. He fell off of his horse--it was a chase, and everybody got on --and we said, “sure, we want to ride, we want to ride, too.” And Mr. Knight says, “no, I'd rather --can we ride this from a short chase -just about half-a-mile or so -that's all we'd be on horseback.” So, Ab got put on the side and he was goin' to go straight, but all the horses turned left, and Ab fell off the horse this way --on the right side and then he started runnin' sayin' “oh, oh, wait a while.” [chuckles] And Mr. Knight laughed. He said, “I told you--you shouldn't get on that horse.” Why, he said, “he didn't go -I asked him to go.” He got a laugh out of the whole crowd. They had to reshoot the scene. With Ab in the picture runnin' after the horse --he said, “we can't use that. Either you're goin' to be a musician or a stuntman -what are you gonna do?” [chuckles] “The stuntman.” They said, “we can't shoot him unless he's a stuntman.”

I rode a horse in that chase. I rode next to Joe Uruguay, and I was in the picture. You could see my back, my face add [and] everything. I thought I didn't have any problems with my horse, but some of them [those] chases now they've got one that they don't want nobody [anybody] to get hurt and that's the Running W. When they run and the horses trip and fall down. They run so far, and the front leg is tied to a thing, and you pull it and he trips there and that's where he falls. If you' re used to stunts, you know just exactly when it's going to happen. And you brace yourself for it. You[‘ve] got to be one hell of a rider to be able to do Running (??).

In our picture only two horses got hurt but, it was their own fault. I mean the cowboys that run [ran] 'em. This one place they hid a rattlesnake nest and the horses reared back and threw the rider and they went through the bushes, and they just got skinned up. Those horses did. The rattlesnakes scared the horses and they just reared up and threw the cowboy off because he didn't expect any rattlesnakes, but they were up there --boy, we saw 'em. We saw scorpions --we used to watch 'em fight man, they'd fight -they'd fight to kill each other. But nobody got snake or scorpion bit.

Frankie Barlow was a prankster. He was Autry’s guitar player and right-hand man for a long, long time. The cook -a big, heavyset black fellow --was cookin', and he says, “come and get it.” About the time we started comin' there, Frankie come [came] runnin' down there and he had like a rubber hose. He says, “my gosh, do you know that snake is over there--been around you all that time?” The colored guy says, “don’t you do that anymore, I almost fell in that hot tub of water and got boiled in there.”

We had the best food. Pork chops, your beef, mostly it was good steaks. And homemade bread. You'd get sandwiches for lunch. They'd give you a good lunch. And you can take what you want to --if you want to go to the commissary, they got it right tere [there] and pick out what you want. Part of the movie was filmed on location and part in the studio where the commissary was. When we were on location--we ate on benches in the open.

"Flame of the West" was easier to make than "Gold Mine in the Sky" because it only runs about 58-59 minutes, I think. And Gene Autry's pictures ran an hour and a half, or an hour and 20 minutes. And I was happy, too, because we got one of our songs in the Johnny Mack Brown picture --''You'll See the Day" and Lynn Carter was the singer. We sent her a demo --one of them shellac things we made -and she liked it right away. And the producer said, “yeah, we might as well let you do this song because it is a pretty song.” He said, “it fits the scene.” And it was lucky we had that in our songbook, too, because it was copyrighted, and we owned it. Mr. Frank and I wrote the song. And the funny part of it is you get $100 for each song. That was in addition to your salary.

Tn this movie we're identified as Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowboys, and we have featured billing in the movie. There's an old-fashioned saloon with call girls upstairs and cowboys take off anytime. You see this woman Lynn Carter going upstairs with men, but you know you'd never see them up there. Not like the Dolly Parton picture with Burt Reynolds -oh, my God! "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" --that was fine.

I've got some dialogue in "Flame of the West." And I say, I've got some humdingers." Somebody says, “have you got anything you can play?” And I say, "I've got some humdingers.” I played myself in this movie because I was identified as Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowboys. Everybody else was playing different people. Our band consisted then of Shorty on fiddle, Redd on fiddle, Terry Ticky (??) on guitar, Sticks on drums, Gene Stewart on bass, Chuck on guitar, me and Gene Ingle the piano player. Eight boys. They were all my group.

The setting of "Flame of the West" is the Old West --no cars. But in the Gene Autry movie, it's contemporary. They had the car go by and splash Smiley, and he got mad, and the car turned off and he didn't know that [and] he threw himself and splashed the building. [chuckles] He created that scene himself and got a laugh. Gene Autry being a well-dressed cowboy, a singin' cowboy and doin' the present-day hit songs to begin with -"Gold Mine in the Sky" -they had to keep it a little more modern.

The yodeler was Becky Barfield, John Barfield's niece. Johnny Barfield is a big star in Alabama. She was his niece. She was our girl singer with our group. She could yodel and that's why I hired her. She took the place of the girl who could really yodel -Texas Daisy. Becky Barfield died. Spade Cooley was lookin' for a girl singer, and I didn't want the girl singer to come up to Louisville with us. So, I called Spade and he told her to come out there, he paid her fare, paid her and everything and took her time and she started workin' for him, though, in Hollywood, California. She went out there permanently later on. She married one of the guitar players and I think they were married about 5 or 6 years, then he died and then she died.

Johnny Mack Brown looked a little old in this movie because he wore a suit. I didn't like the way he looked, the drab clothes didn't help him, he doesn't look like Johnny Mack Brown in a suit. Because you're not used to seein' him that way. But he wore a suit most of the time. He played a doctor -not a cowboy -in this movie. But he knew how to handle a gun as it runs out. This is what happened to Durango Kid, too. He was a doctor, and so was Rex Allen a doctor in his movies. I don't know why they figured a cowboy should become a doctor, but I guess they got to be doctors, too.

We visited with Johnny Mack Brown a couple of days and then he took us next door to him for a barbecue. A movie star called Richard Barbhelmas (??) and had a good time dere [there], met a lot of stars out there that we recognized from faces. But I told the boys, “we shouldn't talk to 'em one-on-one. We should jest [just] smile at 'em and be happy with that.” Because sometimes you say the wrong thing -you think you know then and then you call 'em by the wrong name. I had dat [that] happen a lot of times. You feel that you know 'em 'cause you see 'em on the screen. Many of them had stage names, but Johnny Mack Brown used his real name. Johnny Mack Brown was a great guy, a likeable guy. First of all, you're in awe all the time you're in his presence because he's such a big guy. I think he's about as big as John Wayne.

My favorite (??) in the movies when I was growing up were Fred Thompson and Jack Hocksey. Fred Thompson had a horse named Silver King, and boy, I used to take my make-believe broomstick horse and ride 'im [him], too, when I was a kid. I saw them in the movie houses in Milwaukee. They must have been silent stars.

The Pee Wee King Show in 1952 --TV show -sponsored by Oertel Brewing Co. We had a ranch set and were dressed in cowboy suits. Even announcer Bob Kay was in a cowboy suit. And see, he played his part of the sheriff, so it was right that we would dress him in cowboy [costumes]. Redd Stewart was in my band and his brother Gene Stewart, too. There were five brothers in the Stewart family, and they were all musicians. And their dad was a musician. Gene Stewart is still in town; in fact, he called me today and thanked me for sending him the copy of the picture. He's performing at this restaurant on River Road next to Captain's Quarters called Chicken Inn. They serve the best chicken in the world. It's broasted [roasted] chicken. He performs there about three nights a week; that's all he needs. He's head of the rug and accessories dept. at Bacon's out on the southside at a mall. He's about 60. He's a handsome guy now with silver hair.

We had a studio audience for the Oertel's show –about 50 people on Thursday nights. That was WAVE's big studio at Preston and Broadway. Neil Burris (??) was an extra boy that I hired because he shuffled, and he sang. He was a big boy with it. And he fit into our picture -fit in the group. And he traveled with my brother in a truck a lot of times because dey'd [they’d] go out -he wasn't married at that time, and they'd go out together and take songbooks and records out there. He's still living; he's working for[the] men's store -Rodes. He got out of the bidness [business] -he lost his yodeler and that's the one thing he could do real well. And from den [then] on, it was just downhill for 'im [him].

Pee Wee King's Bandstand --another TV show was kind of a showboat review. It had a showboat theme. That's the one I objected to for a long time. We loved to do any kind of music at all -we'll play it if we have to. But we're in Western clothes so long and all at once they come in with a new sponsor --agent. Now Johnny Oertels says, “Pee Wee--when I complained and went up to Mr. Johnny Oertels at the brewery, we I sat down and had lunch -he was [was] the owner,” -and I says, “Mr. Oertels, I don't know these guys might sell wine like crazy in St. Louis and that.” They had the guy who sang "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" --he was de [the] band leader --anyhow, he had a big band around St. Louis, and it was sponsored by a big wine company. And dey [they] made their niche --St. Louis is [has] a big advertising company [???], so when Mr. Oertel lost the advertising agency here, it was Cotmyer (??) Agency and Mr. Oertels waited around and finally they got this guy from St. Louis to come here and take over the Oertels account. It was a pretty big account, too; they had a lot of the action and that. And at that time, we were the number one bottling company in the city. In fact, we had more bottle accounts than the other three breweries in town---sold more beer than the other three breweries combined. There was Fehr's, Falls City and one other one. So that made Oertels the choice beer of de [the] city.

So, when I told Mr. Oertels they wanted us to go on the showboat and dress up like showboat people do and wear sailors' caps and all that stuff --I said, “Mr. Oertels, that ain't [isn’t] gonna go.” I says, “the people who are used to seein' us now for a one-time shot, it's all right --to play somebody else like you' re actin' -and that's what we were doin' --just play actin.” Mr. Burt Blackwell says, “for God's sake, can’t you guys play-act one time?” He said, “you got a new sponsor -you might as well buy into it and do the best you can.” He gave us a pep talk and everything else. So finally, that was our version of what a showboat looks like.

Both shows were sponsored by Oertels. But the advertising agency was a different agency. For the showboat theme, they signed a 13-week contract, and I was glad it was over in 13 weeks. We did 13 installments of the showboat theme. We played mainly pop music, not Country and Western. That's how versatile the band was -we played a lot of dances, and we were voted number one by the ballroom operators. We did a lot of novelty songs on the show ''Hambone, Hambone" and ''Who's Sorry Now." We had a group of people that just gelled together.

We had a boy and a girl duet; they'd sing ballads and love songs. We had a trio; we called 'em the Bardstown Bucklebusters. And we had two comics --Spike and Spud. And then we had Gene Stewart, the good-lookin' singer. We had Redd Stewart, one of de [the] best singers. And we had trios that could double -go from any instrument they want[ed] -they would lay it down and just join the trio for the popular song of the day. The Four Aces or the Four Lads -we could imitate 'em. At the same time, we were doing this showboat review on TV, we were playing other engagements as the Golden West Cowboys --we dressed Western for those. The showboat was just a Thursday night affair.

Cindy Hayes was a local girl singer who sang like Peggy Lee. And she was secretary of the musicians' union. And we got to know her real [very] well and she sang like a bird. She was a lot of fun; she kept --we all grew up in the same era and we knew, and we called her the Peggy Lee of Louisville. She was blonde.

One of our guests on the show was Sammy Salvo from Birmingham. He had the number one record dat [that] year. And it was just a fly-by-night thing it happened--that we happened to be playing Birmingham, and he come [came] by and introduced himself, and he says, “how 'bout me comin' up and doin' your show” I said, “sure -why not?” He said he could come on up. He said, “I won't charge you nothin [anything].” I says, “no, we'll pay your expenses. I[‘ve] got an expense account.”

So, he came up and we learned to like him -he was a nice guy. So, I took him to Chicago with us and he played the show up there. This was to promote his record; he sang ''Julie Doesn't Love Me Anymore;” that's the one that made him popular in Birmingham; it wasn't nationwide. He was on RCA Victor Records, too, but he never became a big star.

Gene Stewart was very thin when we were doing the two Oertel's TV shows. That’s probably when he was sick. He called ire today and he's going to be examined for disability. To get social security disability. He's got lung problems and he never smoked. Redd loved to eat, and it showed. He was pudgy in the face but he's healthy. He was always 158-165 lbs.

I had a run-in right on the first show. I knew I wasn't goin' like that guy anyhow -from St. Louis. The PR people. They showed a film-in those days we had black add [and] white, dat's [that’s] all -and they showed a film of the guy draggin' a six-pack of Oertel 's '92 in his boat. And it says, “keep your Oertel's '92 nice and cool so you always ask for a cold Oertel's 92. And you don't have to measure -the pleasure's always there.” And the very first show he did the [that] day -that's the commercial they were runnin'. So, I voiced my opinion. I says, “you know, I hate to tell you this--our people who drink Oertel's '92 work at Standard Manufacturing--they make toilets tubs and sinks -or else at Ford Motor Plant --or else at the factory,” --and I said, “dey [they] haven't got time to have a motorboat and drive dat [that] six-pack behind 'em. Dey [They] come home, they take that dirty shirt off, they got their undershirt on that says, “hey, Ma, get me a Oertel's out of the ice box.”” He says, “well, you may have something there,” but he says, “I am the advertising agency.” And I says, “I know you are, and you can keep it.” And he says, “you don't like it -do you?” I said, “no, I don't like that particular commercial.” I said, “it's not the image that we have, that we've built up. All these years with Oertel's '92 --we've been with 'em a long time. And now you come with this boat thing.”

So, I called Johnny Oertel's the next morning. I said, “Mr. Johnny Oertel, I'm comin' in.” He said, “you don't have to come in, son --I know what you're sayin.’” And I said, “did you see the show last night?” “Yeah,” he says, “unless you boys played on a boat before, you couldn't tell it. [chuckles] I said, “no, the boys didn't feel comfortable either. But [for] 13 weeks, I'm sure it'll do.”

So, the next week the PR man come [came] in. He said, “you know somepin [something]--you guys used to write the jingles for 'em, didn't ya?” I said, “not all of 'em,” ---the agency brought some in. Cheer Up song isn't ours --it belongs to Oertel's '92. They copyrighted it and it's their theme song. "Cheer up with Oertel' s 92 whenever you are dry and thirsty," [sings]. Anyhow, he says, “you guys might be good song writers, but I don't think you should write jingles.” And right after that, Dottie West had the big Coca-Cola song.

So, this guy --I wasn't pickin' on 'im [him] and he wasn't pickin' on me, but we express ed [expressed] ourself [ourselves] and it didn't hit right. He came over every week from St. Louis--brought the commercials in with 'im [him] and everything. They were already made, and they just put them on the air. And he was here to see the show.

It was a popular show. I was on the first show on WAVE TV in 1948 when I took my hat off and said, “welcome to WAVE --the first television station in the state of Kentucky.” We were the first show. We did a piped-in show to the Armory for the buyers, add [and] there were about 30 buyers there -advertising agencies and potential buyers like --the first sponsor we had was Mr. French, who worked for Peaslee--Caulbert, was it? That odd-named furniture store there. And he lived right across the street from me -he said, “I'll pick it up -I'll take a sponsor (??) Den [Then] the next one was Taylor's Drug Stores -they only had 11 stores at that time, and now look what they've got!

It was called The Pee Wee King Show. The sponsor was a manufacturing company. But right after that, we got Oertel's Brewing Co. And the second show was the St. X [St. Xavier High School in Louisville]-Trinity game --football game. They televised high-school football on Thanksgiving Day. We were on from 6:15 to 6:45 p.m., and then they took the cameras out to the football game. There wasn't continuous broadcasting all day long. But they wanted to see what it would look like. And they had little sets --8 inch screens, I think.

It was Thanksgiving Weekend of 1948. We came here from Nashville in October 1947, and the TV show came in in 1948. We moved back here from Nashville in October 1947.

In 1960, Lucky Marlar (??) -he was a bookin' agency manager--he booked Minnie Pearl and [and] the Pee Wee King Show on fair dates and auditoriums., He was in Nashville --Nashville based. A fine promoter. He put the package together of Minnie Pearl, the Collins Sisters, Pee Wee King, and the Golden West Cowboys and took us across the country. And we played fairs, parks, festivals, and that.

In 1961, we went to Las Vegas. Beside[s] Lucky Molar, I had made contacts with bookin' agents like in Omaha -Don Rubio (??) -and Kansas City -Hap Peebles (??) and up East--Mr. Ward Beam at New York state -and Cook and Rose in Pennsylvania. So, I kept in touch with them all the time and when Lucky Molar got one of our big fair dates somewhere around Allentown or a park date up dere [there], then I would contact these other guys and see if they could get us firemen's picnics say on a Tuesday or something like that. But I kept in touch with all the guys like that.

I paid these bookin' agents 15%. But only for those he booked me for. Any I booked for myself, he got no cut --then I have to give that guy his--but I have a regular salary comin' and he doesn't put the 15% on it -I don't have to pay him that because he just knows what he gets -I work for him.

Colonel Parker booked us in Las Vegas. They had a week of some kind of a doing there and they wanted a Western band. And Colonel Parker suggested –he said, “Pee Wee King's got one of the best bands for this type of room,” and says, “you better get him in here.” Well, see, he hadn't seen the band at that time --it wasn't the same band. It was the number two band --a different band completely.

We were in the Golden Nugget -one of the places they have Western music. And we were booked in there for I guess 3 weeks or 2 weeks. And then we went on tour -from there we went to Idaho --Boise, Idaho, Potlatch, [Pocatello], Idaho, North Platte, Nebraska and in Omaha, we worked for Don Rubio (??). And in Iowa, we worked for Jack Lindahl (??) out of Chicago -we worked Dubuque and also Rockford, Illinois, then we came home. That was about a month we were gone.

This tour was booked by different ones, but Colonel Parker got us in Las Vegas. At that time, we had two station wagons. So, we did this sort of thing often --being booked somewhere and then get up a tour in conjunction with the main date. Not come home straight dead ahead -that's too rough to do, 'cause that's a heck of a long drive. But we used to do 'em, too.

That was the only time I played in Las Vegas. I called it a salt mine. When you got through with your set, you climbed up the stairs to your dressin' room. And when you worked the night shift like we did from 8 at night to 2 in the morning, boy, those hours got long. And I told the manager --he come up to me and he said, “you don't seem to be enjoying yourself.” I said, “I'm not.” I said, “I'm not used to this.” And he says, “well, you[‘ve] got to be here 2 weeks -you[‘d] better like it.” I says, “oh, we'll get used to it. It's a little different but we'll get used to it.”

So, after the two weeks are over, I got my pay and everything else, and he bought me a drink and we sit there and talk and he says, “I'll say one thing -you're a hard-working group.” He says, “the shows are well-liked by everybody --well-received.” But, he said, “the attitude that you had --it wasn't you.” He said, “I expected you to be bubbly all the time.” And I said, “well, I wasn't and I'm sorry.” He said, “well, what would you rather do--one-nighters like you always do?” I says, “that wasn't bad. And we used to play a different audience every night.” And I says, “here, along about midnight when they start dwindlin’ down, at 2 o'clock in the mornin', there ain't [aren’t] 25 or 30 people out there.” I says, “you don't feel like puttin' on a big show for 'em.”

He says, “well, I doubt you want to come back here -ever.” I said, “no, I imagined -we'll see how it all turns out.” So, I never called him back or nothin’ [anything]. It's not the type of an audience -see, when you play a dance, you got your motion. When you play a date in a theater, you[‘ve] got response. But you work a gamblin' joint and you've got gamblers --they don't give a damn who's up dere [there]. Unless you're in the big room and the Golden Nugget didn't have a big room. They were gambling while we were playing. And they weren't paying much attention. We'd call their attention to it; I'd say, “the show's goin' to start in about five minutes,” and they'd come out to start with. And the 45 minutes just dragged on and dragged on for me and --for all of us. That’s 7 sets.

The audience wasn't sitting there in concert fashion. They was [were] goin' to different: tables, gamblin’, shootin' dice, pullin' the slot machines. It isn't that way anymore the guy learned -- you start bringin' names in there that were familiar to the people who were used to goin' to the Golden Nugget, or there's another one called The Showboat up the street from us and dey [they] had the Hollywood entertainers there. Well, see, from Hollywood today, this isn't far. And the boys that they get are on television every day, in Hollywood, and they're well-known in Vegas. So, on Monday night when we had off, we'd go see them and they put us on stage with 'em, to advertise that we're at the Golden Nugget.

The Golden Nugget now has a big auditorium, and no gambling in it. It's all on the outside. So, if you played a date there now, you wouldn't have to be competing with the roulette wheels, and slot machines. But when we were playing there, wasn't so hot. Well, we got good money. And kino -- another game that they played -they went right on - they didn't care about the music or who they had entertaining.

We played instrumental music and had soloists, too. We had a pretty nice stage to play on. We put about 5 or 6 musicians on it. A drummer and all that stuff. But we were at one end of the gambling area. The gambling was all in a semi-circle – like a stage in. And your band was set in the corner right in front of all of it. We were in a little alcove with about 50 chairs. People would stop and listen. They didn't have permanent chairs. We were like background music.

But it paid well. They had to pay you. Homer and Jethro were there a month before we were, and they said, “we learned something - to pass it on to you.” He says, “what you do is, try to get a little money in advance every night, or every second night. And that way,” he said, “they'll think you're spendin' it - and send it home [chuckles].” So, we did that. I said, “all the boys have got to get a little money ahead, so I said, “we[‘ve] got to draw a couple hundred dollars and that.” And so, I wrote out a debit and passed the window and they'd give us the cash and then we'd go down like we go spend in' it at tables. They liked that idea because they thought they were getting their money back, but they weren't paying us anymore than they had agreed to. It maybe made them feel good by getting it back.

You had the big names in the other clubs there. We went to see file Ink Spots. In 1962, the highlight was the Evansville Telethon with Bob Hope. That was the arthritis telethon. The people from the Evansville radio and television station wanted us to come down – dey [they] booked the same for thing (??). And we got paid a small salary and those we donated to the telethon. And Bob Hope was the headliner and emcee.

And the officers' club we went out to [an] air force base, in Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska and Kansas. We were playing the NCO clubs then. And den [then] we got the dinner club at The Flame up in Minneapolis, for one week. That's a Western nightclub like -- a dinner club like Derby Dinner Playhouse in Indiana. It's about that kind of place. Dey [They] had the same thing -- they used a lot of local bands -- name bands on record.

Patsy Cline at Stilton Fair. She was booked with us (??). Lucky Molar booked her. That was at Stilton (??) Wisconsin. And we had to send a car out to the airport to pick her up, at Madison; she came to the Stilton Fair, and worked a date with us up there. That was the only time I worked with Patsy Cline.

I remember that she was everything they said she is as far as an entertainer and as far as a lady she is. I didn't get to see much of her because when she finished her show, she went back to the dressin' room and that. After that, we had to go to Indianapolis with Charlie Weaver. To the state fair. So, we didn't see much of Patsy Cline; she went back on the airplane to Nashville. Or where she was goin' - she didn't say. It wasn't too much later that she was killed. I liked her music -- she was a great singer. My God, she was the best Country singer at that time. She was the biggest girl star at that time. Her big numbers were ''Walkin' After Midnight" and -- the one she won [with on] the Arthur Godfrey Show.

Then in '63 we did our own movie. We filmed at Campaign (??) Studios and did the outdoor shots at Renfro Valley. It wasn't a great success. We formed TeleKing Corporation and we couldn't give it away. The TeleKing Corporation was for the making of the movie. And it took us until 1967 to get all the copyrights cleared and everything else. We shot it in '63 and come [came] out with it in '67. But it didn't do too well. We had distributors in Florida, New Orleans, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Chicago -- we had about 10 guys that were - they volunteered to take a movie not on a percentage basis but see what happened. And it didn't go over. It didn't go over because we weren't known at that time in pictures. We didn't make pictures at that time. And the title of the picture- -- we called it "Country Western Hoedown." I don't have a copy of the movie.

Then, right after that, we went to making Starday Records - an album, material. And we started goin' to the fair board meetings --like go[ing] to Michigan - we'd go to Detroit -- they had a banquet for the fair board dat [that] were there - all the fair boards from Michigan. So, we did a 6:30 show and a 9:30 dance. And Michigan was one of our biggest dates for fairs and parks and everything. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, and of course, Indiana was always good.

As far as Kentucky is concerned, I couldn't even get on anything around here--little fairs in the territory – they use local bands. I've played the Kentucky State Fair a couple of times. It was a good show because, we were from here and they come [came] up.

And then in '65, we played a sports show down in Mobile. Bill King's Sport Show. And Paul Hornung (??) was the guest and emcee. And the other book[ing] up in Connecticut was Jim Hinkle. And he was a singer and former entertainer, and he learned he can't [couldn’t] make it with that so he started bookin' acts. And he paid good, and we played Springfield, Massachusetts, Norwalk, Connecticut, Albany, New York, Bridgeport, Connecticut, Binghamton, New York, Rochester, New York.

The Wild Pony Round-Up in Chincoteague. That's the biggest thing they got in Chincoteague. They booked at ABC. One of these guys from ABC called when we were in Cleveland on television, and he said, “what kind of entertainment does Pee Wee King got [have]?” The manager of [the] television [station] in Cleveland said, “Why - what do you need him for?” He says, “we[‘ve] got a date to go and set our equipment here and watch the most freakish thing I[‘ve] ever heard of. A bunch of wild horses live on an island, and then they make em’ swim once a year to come in. And they have auctions.” He said, “well, I'll approach Pee Wee on it.”

So, I called the guy and sure enough, he took it. I told him it was three shows a day, and we saw the horses comin' in and they had the auctions in between. So, we'd do a half-hour show, and then the guy would sell horses for about 2 or 3 hours. It worked out pretty good. They taped it for television. We were live. It wasn't a whole-day taping - it was just about two hours out of the whole day. It was a platform with an auctioneer, and they paraded the wild horses in front of you. And the people would walk around and look at the ponies and buy the kids each a pony or somethin' like that, but they were wild. I didn't buy one, but I wanted to -- I said, “Naw, I ain’t [am not ] goin’ to bring that home -- I've got a healthy family now [chuckles].”

They weren't broken; they were all wild; they grew up on that island. Every year they have their colts, and they bring 'em in. So, ABC broadcast[ed] live from the grounds - from Chincoteague. I couldn't find it on a map to begin with -- I had to find it--it's a little bitty place right out of Washington. We had thousands of people. Dey [They] figured the attendance was about 30-35,000 people, came into town. They weren't all interested in buying the ponies, but they wanted to see what was going on. They drive the herds in a few at a time, instead of goin' and gettin' them all.

Kuka Records. We went to make a souvenir album to plug the picture and sell at the movie where the picture was playin' - "Country-Western Hoedown." It was our company -- our corporation. And the funny thing about it was the album sold better than the movie! [chuckles] We called it "Petticoat Junction" - that was the opening tune on the album. It was the opening of the show. The album itself was called "Country-Western Hoedown'' like the movie.

Incidentally, I'm playing Sunset Park this August that [was where] I worked in 1965. The old man who owned it -- Mr. Waltman (??) - he died, and his son is runnin' it. Waltman Jr., is there now. That's in Pennsylvania. We're takin' a big package over there, a Hall of Fame package featuring Ralph Emery as the master of ceremonies, Bill Monroe and his group, Jimmy Dickens and his group, Kitty Wells and her group, Pee Wee King and his group.

I use the band that Hank Williams Sr. left behind called the Driftin' Cowboys. The[y] back up Redd and I. So, Redd and I will be goin' with the Driftin' Cowboys. They are based in Nashville. They have their own bus, so we'll meet them up there.

They know our stuff already –no need to rehearse--we've worked together so many times. They got Hank Williams' illegitimate daughter – Jeff (??) - and she's got a book out and you ought to read it. It's one of them [those] paperback things like Travis made. We'll be doing two shows -- August 16, I think. Sunset Park is a great big park - it's outdoors. It'll be like an old-time fair date -- little county fair. It's West Grove, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia. I'm worried about it, too, because I don't like to drive that far anymore [anymore]. Buck Lake Ranch we worked, too, with Lassie.