Oral History Interview with Chester Mills

WILLIAM BERGE: What is your name sir?

CHESTER MILLS: Chester Mills BERGE: The following is an unrehearsed taped interview with Mr. Chester Mills of Mason, Ohio. The interview is conducted by William Berge, for the Kentucky Oral History Commission, in Cumberland Falls State Park. The interview is conducted at Cumberland Falls State Park, on September 28, 2000, at Four PM. Mr. Mills, what was your full name, and what were the names of your parents?

MILLS: Ah, Chester P. Mills is what I normally use, Chester P. Mills, I was named after my grandfather, but I never met him.

BERGE: What was your father's name?

MILLS: Ah, Ed Mills.

BERGE: Ed Mills and your mother? 1:00MILLS: Nina Mills.

BERGE: What was her maiden name?

MILLS: Johnson.

BERGE: Where was your father born?

MILLS: Ah, he was born in Adair County, Kentucky.

BERGE: Adair County, Kentucky, and your mother?

MILLS: She was born in, I believe West Virginia. I think it was.

BERGE: Where were you born?

MILLS: Born in Carlton, Kentucky.

BERGE: What county is that in?

MILLS: That is in Adair.

BERGE: Adair County. Ok. How did you get educated? Where did you go to school?

MILLS: I went to school in Carlton, Kentucky.

BERGE: Huh-huh.

MILLS: And I went to school in ( ) vocation while I was in the service. In the military.

BERGE: Ok. What day and year were you born?

MILLS: I was born 1920, 23 February.

BERGE: Well, that is almost eighty years ago isn’t it? (laughs) A little over eighty years ago I think. Tell me this, how old were you when you when you 2:00finally left Kentucky?

MILLS: I--let me see—I was twenty-one.

BERGE: Twenty-one. Now, can you remember how you heard about the CCC’s?

MILLS: I and a guy was talking about the CCC one day and he was—well first he wanted—he said, “let’s go join the army.” I said, “I’ll join the army, but I can go in the CC’s and make thirty dollars a month and in the army it is only twenty-one.” BERGE: What year was that?

MILLS: That was in thirty-nine.

BERGE: What were you doing up to that time.

MILLS: Um, helping my dad out, he was, a saw mill, running a saw mill. ( ).

BERGE: You got all your fingers. Not many people work in saw mills that got all their fingers. (laughs) MILLS: I pretty near ( ) one time. See, big old board and 3:00you got two ( ), most the time. So the guy that operated that board didn’t show up one day, and my dad told me to do it. So I went in there, and I, boy, I was looking forward to it. And see I had ( ) and he started pulling the board out, my dad did; and they had shut the mill down, and everything and everybody had walked away, and two minutes later when it cooled down a little bit he put some water in there. So then … BERGE: And the next day you went in the CCC’s? (laughter) MILLS: So later on everybody, ( ) started joining the CC’s, so I was in there eighteen months. Do you want my history while I was in there?

BERGE: Let me ask you a few questions first. Where did you go to join the CC’s?

MILLS: At Corbin, Kentucky. 4:00BERGE: Well did they have like a regular—were they just for CCC’s, or was it a regular place to join the army, or what? Do you remember?

MILLS: To tell you the truth, I don’t know.

BERGE: Do you remember the fella that you went in with?

MILLS: No, no. Not off hand I don’t.

BERGE: When you went, and you joined the CCC’s; how long was it from the time you joined till you left?

MILLS: When I come in the CC’s?

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: Oh, I think probably a week or so something like that.

BERGE: And where were you sent?

MILLS: First went to Fort Knox, and ( ) BERGE: Ok.

MILLS: And after they give us our clothes and everything they sent us to Boreing.

BERGE: Oh, right over here.

MILLS: Yeah. So I spent eighteen months there in Boreing BERGE: What did you do there? 5:00MILLS: Well, starting out with—just like every body else—went down, and went in the forest, and ( ) mountain back there and we ( ) our job. And I got to thinking that there should be a better job than this. So, the next day they put a job on the board for a truck driver, so I put my name on that truck driving job and got it. So that’s what I did from then on out. Except one time there, they only had two ratings in there, leader and assistant leader. So they wanted to make me assistant leader, and at that time they told me that the truck drivers job didn’t call for assistant leader. So they put me in the yard, 6:00and I worked in the garage a couple of months, and they made me assistant leader, then they put me back on the truck.

BERGE: Oh, you had to do that to get the promotion, I guess.

MILLS: Well, I found out later that they could make anybody assistant leader if they wanted to. They made a guard assistant leader, so … BERGE: When you went down from E-Town to Bald Rock how did you go? Do you remember? Did you go in a truck or …?

MILLS: No, we went on the train.

BERGE: Train.

MILLS: I never will forget that ( ) about the time we got half-way somebody got drunk and pulled the brake on it and put it in ( ).

BERGE: Was there a lot of drinking?

MILLS: Well, not too much. The guys didn’t have no money to buy any hardly.

BERGE: Do you remember when you first got there what did it look like to you? The place at Bald Rock? What did you eat in? 7:00What did you sleep in?

MILLS: Well, the same thing as the army. They assigned you to a bunk and everything, and you eat in the mess hall like everybody else, and you had ah, mess kits like they had in the army, but they had plates and everything. Had a PX that had cigarettes and all.

BERGE: Do you remember, when you were in the CCC, how did they pay you? Did they pay you every month?

MILLS: Every month.

BERGE: Did they pay cash? Do you remember?

MILLS: I think they did, I am not sure. You had to have an allotment made out to your—who was responsible for you—so part of it went to your home; and they paid you I think ( ), I don’t even know how much they sent home. I don’t know.

BERGE: Do you remember how much you drew? 8:00MILLS: Well, thirty dollars a month went to … BERGE: But you don’t actually remember how much you got?

MILLS: Seems to me like—you know it was seven dollars—I’m not sure. I think it was seven dollars that I got paid, and then when I got assistant leader they added six more dollars on there.

BERGE: Ok.

MILLS: From thirty—you made thirty-six dollars as assistant leader.

BERGE: Hum-hum. Now, when you got there, how many people do you think were there?

MILLS: How many people were there?

BERGE: Yeah, at Bald Rock.

MILLS: They had four barracks. I’d say probably two or three hundred, give or take a little.

BERGE: Do you remember who was in charge of the whole thing at Bald Rock?

MILLS: Not when I first went in, 9:00but Captain Reno was commanding officer after a while, his assistant was Binghamton.

BERGE: Hum-hum. Were these army officers?

MILLS: Ahm, let’s see. Binghamton was an army officer, and ah, I think Reno was, a army officer, we did have one navy officer come in there one time.

BERGE: Oh, a navy officer, never heard of that.

MILLS: Yeah, a navy officer, he didn’t stay very long.

BERGE: When you drove your truck, what did you do, what did you haul?

MILLS: Well, there was a crew out there on the job—see there was a crew out there now, 10:00was these NYA girls, was a regular ( ); and they worked out there had sewing machines put in there, ( ), and stuff like that.

BERGE: Who were these now?

MILLS: NYA girls.

BERGE: Where did they live?

MILLS: In a house they worked in ( ), and they had so many in each house.

BERGE: Did any of the CCC boys try to see these girls?

MILLS: I didn’t send ( ). (laughter) BERGE: But I guess you could. They were young girls, just like you were young men?

MILLS: They was ( ).

BERGE: Where were they from?

MILLS: Anywheres. Everywheres.

BERGE: Just like the CCC boys? You know you are the first person I have talked to who has mentioned them.

MILLS: Well, they, they ah—see the reason that ( ) we took care of the grass 11:00and stuff like that and put in drain tiles.

BERGE: How far was that from where you lived?

MILLS: Well, ( ) the barracks.

BERGE: I mean from the barracks.

MILES: Probably about seventeen miles—fifteen or seventeen miles.

BERGE: Ah, did you ever go to any other CCC camps when you were driving the truck?

MILLS: Oh, yeah. I went to quite a few of them. But I don’t know why they picked me all the time. But I tell you one thing, someone from Fort Knox they come to me and they put somebody else on my route. I went to quite a few different side camps and back then there were no road signs. The foreman would pick me out—just draw me out a map just like on a sheet of paper like that, that’s what I had to go by.

BERGE: Did you ever go over here to McCreary County? To that camp 12:00over there?

MILLS: I went to McCreary County, ( ) I went to ( ) quite a few times. I went to different camps.

BERGE: You went to that one at Sterns?

MILLS: Sterns.

BERGE: Well, that is interesting. What would—would you be taking something there—or get something there and bring it back. Do you remember?

MILLS: Most of the time I would go pick up something. When I went to Fort Knox I’d go down and get something that would be for the army—see that wouldn’t be for the Forest Service, it would be for the army. I’d go down there and pick up stuff. Most of the time the ( ) sergeant would go with me. Yeah, I lived about half way between Fort Knox and Bald Rock. And I’d take a shortcut and go cross through there, and off through ( ) and go home.

BERGE: To see your folks?

MILLS: Sometimes. One time 13:00the First Sergeant had to get back for a couple days and I didn’t need him so we stayed all night at my folks house.

BERGE: That’s nice. Tell me this when you ah—did you ever get to come here? To Cumberland Falls?

MILLS: Yeah, see I drove a truck and… BERGE: Yeah. That’s what I meant.

MILLS: And a lot of times I—if I was on duty for the week-end, had to stay on duty--if I was on duty, I would bring a truck load of guys down here to Cumberland Falls. I would just drive the truck.

BERGE: What did you think of this place when you came down here?

MILLS: What’d I think of it?

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: Oh, you mean when I was in the C’s or not?

BERGE: Yeah, when you were in the C’s.

MILLS: Well, back then it was something great to come to Cumberland Falls. That was something kind of unusual to see something like that.

BERGE: Did 14:00you actually come to the CCC camp here?

MILLS: I remember that just slightly. Seems to me like we stopped here one time, but I don’t remember whether I got out of the truck or not then. But we had one guy in our outfit, who got too close to the water falls there and fell in and drowned BERGE: Oh, really?

MILLS: Roden, I think was his name.

BERGE: When would that have been? About 1940 or… MILLS: Well, lets see, I went in, in—I got out in forty-one, it was probably about—well, the summer of forty, I think.

BERGE: Yeah. When did you leave the CC’s?

MILLS: In forty or forty-one.

BERGE: What time do you remember? What month?

MILLS: I think it was in March. It was in the spring.

BERGE: What did you do then? 15:00MILLS: I went to Cincinnati in Ohio, and I got a job up there, and I worked probably ten months, and Pearl Harbor was bombed the Seventh of December, the twenty-eighth day of January I sworn in the service.

BERGE: Did you enlist?

MILLS: Well, I tried to enlist beforehand and they wouldn’t take me, cause I was working ( ), and they made parts for air planes. And about a month later, they wouldn’t take me, and then another guy and I got my draft card ( ), I had to report to Columbia to ( ) that’s where I was registered at.

BERGE: Mr. Mills, when you joined the three C’s, 16:00did you join it for a certain length of time? How did you do that , do you remember?

MILLS: Ah, you joined for six months at a time. Yes, you were supposed to stay six months. And if you didn’t tell them that you were going to leave at the end of that six months, why they just carried you over. But I never did see this on paper, but they said that two years was the maximum, and if you didn’t—they could carry you over, if you had a rating and had a special job, they could carry you over.

BERGE: But, I guess if a person really got a good job they would let him go out, though, wouldn’t they?

MILLS: Well, most of the guys had ( ) jobs they would—if they wanted to stay they would carry him over.

BERGE: But what I meant was—if you were in--say you were in a year and one-half, and you found yourself a good job somewhere, they probably would have 17:00let you go?

MILLS: Oh, if you found a job, they would give you an honorable discharge.

BERGE: When you went in the service, did it help you any that you had been in the three C’s? Did they ask you ( )?

MILLS: Well, one thing, when I was in the service in World War II, they did the same thing that I was in the three C’s. Line up by your bunk, and we will show you how to make your bunk.

BERGE: Yeah. And you already knew how.

MILLS: We got ( ) I had mine made up, and the sergeant came up to me, and looked at my bed and looked at me. He said, “have you been in the service before?” I said, “no.” He said, “don’t tell me that or you wouldn’t have known how to make your bed.” BERGE: Hum-hum. Did you tell him you were in the three C’s?

MILLS: Later I did yeah. Actually it was the same thing as the army when you were in the barracks. When you lived in the barracks ( ).

BERGE: Yeah. 18:00When you were in the three C’s, did you ever talk to anybody in the three C’s where they built things?

MILLS: Ahh … BERGE: Like some places they built schools, bridges, and walls, and they did a lot of work down here at the ( ).

MILLS: They built a small bridge over here, and I went down there a few times, and seemed like I had a regular schedule to take out—the regular crew. And a couple times I took a load of stuff down there, but I don’t know they—when they put them beams across there, ( ) when they put them beams across there, they had to go down to Corbin to get them.

BERGE: Do you remember where?

MILLS: Down at Corbin, out to the railroad down there 19:00( ), and what they did, they took two dump trucks, one of them drove forward, and one of them backwards. All them beams in there were so long.

BERGE: Yeah, they had them all on two trucks.

MILLS: Hum, on two trucks … BERGE: That took a long time, to back a truck all the way from Corbin … MILLS: Yeah, they had to go pretty slow, but I didn’t drive a truck; but that is how they got them beams down there for the … BERGE: What was the road like? What kind of condition was the road in?

MILLS: It was all gravel road.

BERGE: It was.

MILLS: ( ) down to the river, went in to pick up lunch, they called it a jam sandwich two pieces of bread and jam.

BERGE: Yeah. (laughs) MILLS: And they was down around the curve one day, and I slid about half way around on that gravel, here comes Bicknell--he was Forest Service Lieutenant--when 20:00he got back to the barracks, he asked my foreman what I’d gone for; he said, “who was that down there throwing that truck around there?” He said, “he covered me up with dust.” And my foreman usually ( ).

BERGE: That’s good. When you ah—when you were in there, generally speaking was the food good?

MILLS: Well, I’d say, it taken all the way around, the food was all right. Now and then you would find some that maybe you didn’t like but, I knew all them cooks, and would go to town, and come back and go in there an shoot the bull with them, ( ).

BERGE: And then you had a lot of friends because of the truck driving. You got to know more people in the … MILLS: Well, just like most of the guys around that worked in the Mess Hall; I knew them pretty well, 21:00as I say, I would stop in there and shoot the bull.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Do you remember any of the people that—the names that you were stationed with in the three C’s? Where they were from and …?

MILLS: Well there was Tom Main, he lives right up here, going into Corbin, and he is the President now of the CC’s.

BERGE: Did you know him then?

MILLS: Yeah.

BERGE: Was he at Bald Rock?

MILLS: Yeah. Then ( ) Hill, he was at Bald Rock when I was there, he lives in Corbin, and Chester Lewis, he was one that worked in the kitchen as a Mess Sergeant. He wasn’t here last year, but he was a gonna come this year, but I understood that his wife had to have an eye operation, so he couldn’t’ be here this year. He lives in Louisville.

BERGE: When you were at Bald Rock, do you remember if any of the people that were there were from 22:00other states?

MILLS: Humm.

BERGE: Or were they mostly from Kentucky?

MILLS: Most of them were from the Kentucky area, but we had—we had one guy from West Virginia, I believe it was, but I don’t recall his name. ( ) maybe work in the Personnel Office, or something like that and then you would know where everybody was from.

BERGE: Do you remember when you--let me just get back, let me change here a minute. When you were in the service where were you stationed? After you went in the army?

MILLS: You want me to name all of them?

BERGE: Yeah. Start at the beginning, if you can.

MILLS: Well, in the beginning I went to Fort Knox, I went from Fort Knox to Aberdeen Proving Ground, and went to school 23:00there on ammunition, bombs and things like that, anything about guns. Then I went down to ( ) Louisiana, I got on a boat—got on a ship there at New Orleans, went to the Caribbean. The name of the town was Colon, and I was stationed there for a while. Then I went to Headquarters of the Air Force in Panama City, and then I went to someplace up in the jungle. I forget now what the name of it was. Then I went to Burma, I stayed off of Burma there, on an island, stayed there for a while, then I came back 24:00to Headquarters, and I spent two years in the Canal Zone and the Caribbean ( ), spent two years in the Stateside. Then I went to Lincoln, Nebraska.

BERGE: They finally you in cold weather didn’t they?

MILLS: Well, I went up there in March and I was walking around … BERGE: The winter was pretty well over when you got there?

MILLS: I was walking around in short sleeves.

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: Then I went from Lincoln Nebraska, to Hardingville, Indiana, then I went to Baton Rouge and from there to—I signed up to go to the European; and I went to Panama City, Florida or, Fort Myers, Florida. ( ) already 25:00had my gunning training and everything, I just had to go through the special training. Then Germany surrendered. And I went downtown, and got pretty well lit up--and had a friend--and the barman must have been his friend or something, he got called in and told him that the guy who signed up to go to European had over two years in the service somewhere. That barman went to the Post Commander the next morning and said that anybody who had two years or better ( ) they shouldn’t have to go … BERGE: So you got out of that MILLS: Then I went to ( ) got instruction up there, gunnery instruction.

BERGE: Is that Tampa?

MILLS: That’s in Panama City.

BERGE: Panama City.

MILLS: Then I—I went out in the jungles there in Florida, somewhere I never did—I don’t even know—there’s a fire base, I don’t even know what town it was close to, whether 26:00Panama City was the closest town or not. But anyways they came up with the point system, and I had probably more points that the rest of the guys, and I got on the ( ) system, and went to Maxwell Field, Alabama, that’s where I got discharged.

BERGE: When did you get discharged?

MILLS: Where?

BERGE: When?

MILLS: September 30, 1945.

BERGE: Forty-five. Then where did you go?

MILLS: I went back to Cincinnati.

BERGE: Same place?

MILLS: Hum-hum.

BERGE: How long did you work there?

MILLS: In 1945.

BERGE: No, I mean how long did you stay there to work?

MILLS: Oh, pretty near the rest of my life. But the last eight years I lived in the suburbs of Cincinnati; then the last eight years I moved up to Mason about 27:00twenty miles north of Cincinnati.

BERGE: So actually, except for the time you were in the service, from the time you left the three C’s you worked for the same people. Generally speaking.

MILLS: I ( ) worked the same people, when I went to Cincinnati the first time I worked for Michaels. Then I came back, went back I worked about ten months, then I got another job and then I worked there about ten months. And then the guy told me, he said, “I ( ) Autolight up there;” and I went to Autolight put an application in and they hired me.

BERGE: And you stayed there.

MILLS: I stayed there till fifty-eight, then Ford came in and built a transmission plant up there. Then 28:00I went to Ford and I retired from Ford in eighty-two.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Do you think, when you first went up there to work, after you left the three C’s, and went up there to work the first time—do you think the fact that you had that three C’s experience helped you get that job?

MILLS: It probably did. If you got a good record someplace and they check it out there’s no problem. I got a log book that I got in the CCC, and Bicknell was the Company Commander at that time, he signed and the Forest Service signed it, and Foreman of the Rangers signed it.

BERGE: Well that’s pretty good then. Did most of the fellas that you lived in with the barracks, in the three 29:00C’s, did they like it?

MILLS: Did they like me?

BERGE: No, did they like the three C’s, or did they complain a lot like guys do?

MILLS: Oh, some of them did and some didn’t, ( ) some were glad to be in there.

BERGE: Oh, yeah.

MILLS: But actually they had three meals a day and … BERGE: Oh, man, I’m getting close here, hold on.

END OF SIDE ONE TAPE ONE MILLS BEGIN SIDE TWO TAPE ONE MILLS BERGE: Fred, when I was turning the tape you said you had a question you wanted to ask Mr. Mills, what was it?

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: You told me that in the years past, you were one of the few that had a car and that you kept it hidden because you were ( )?

MILLS: Well, they told me—but I never saw anything on paper about that , but I always was told that a CC member wasn’t allowed to have a car. Well, 30:00after I was in there a couple months--I wish I had a saved my money--and my Dad run across a thirty-six Ford a doctor had, and I bought that. And I took it up there, and there’s a guy—he sold moonshine—and on down back past the barracks there, and I got acquainted with him, and I took my car down and parked in front of his house. And when I didn’t have it parked there, there was woods over behind the barracks, the officers barracks, and I parked it in behind the woods up there. But the guy—the foreman that I drove for why, he drove it a couple of times to Bowling Green, that was where he was from. And I was 31:00on duty one night, and Singleton was on duty one night one weekend, they were—Singleton was single same as I was--so they come in, so they said, “if we had some girls up here we could have a card game.” I told Singleton, I said, “come on we will go get some girls, when we got some girls we’ll go over to the officers quarters.” Of course, I wasn’t supposed to be up there, we went to the officers quarters and played cards and ( ) … BERGE: Probably those moon shiners daughters. (laughs) MILLS: I, well I had that car, I’ll tell you this story. While I had that car, before I left up there, they had a circus in London, 32:00and ( ) so, couple guys and myself, we decided to go to that circus. We got about half way to the circus there, and this old moon shine, this guy said let’s go get some whiskey. I said, “ you guys want any I’ll stop.” I said, “I don’t want any.” So they got a half a gallon; in a thirty-six ford had bucket seats, and I had what they call an Indian blanket laying over the seat, and we got on to the fair ground and I didn’t drink any—sometimes I drink, and sometimes I don’t, and that was one time when I didn’t drink anything. So they take a drink of the whiskey, and I says,”( ) back to me,” and I just laid it between the seats, and the blanket was hanging over it. And ( ) sheriffs 33:00and we didn’t know it , so we was walking around on the fair ground there and messing around and one guy come up to me and he says, “have you got a thirty-six Ford?” I said, “yeah.” He said, “you got any whiskey in it?” I said, “I don’t have any.” I said, “these guys got some in there.” He said, “the sheriffs waiting for you to come back. He saw you take a drink of whiskey and set the bottle back in there.” So, (laughs), this is kind of funny by now; I got to thinking, and I told one guy, I said, “you go one way and me and the other guy will go the other way.” The suspicion being on three people together, and I went up to the State Patrol which was right down on the corner where you make that turn into town ..

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: I reported it as stolen and the State Patrol wrote up this report and said, “where was the car at?” I said, “it was sitting down there at the Fair Grounds 34:00, behind the taxi stand.” And I said, “if you find it I will be up at the ( )” And for some time, I left it at the taxi driver’s house down there in the garage. And so, I went up to the taxi stand, it wasn’t very long here comes the High Sheriff and a ( ). And he said, “are you the one got the car stolen?” I said, “yeah.” He said, “come on, I think we found it.” I said, “where did you find it?” He said, “on the Fair Grounds.” (laughter) And we went down there and the Deputy Sheriff, which ( ). The Deputy Sheriff said, “they find it?” I said, “well, I guess they did, but I already ( ).” Deputy Sheriff said, “well, we’ll break a window out to get that whiskey out.” I said, “if you break a window you are going to have to put one back in for I haven’t the money to put it back in there.” I says, “you take me back to the taxi stand 35:00up there, I’ll get the keys from Gregory up there, and I’ll open the door.” So the High Sheriff says, “let’s go get the key.” And I turned around and I said, “well, if we all leave whoever got the car might come back and get it while we are gone.” High Sheriff said to the Deputy, “You stay with the car there while we are gone.” So me and the High Sheriff, got in the car and went back up and got the key. I had already told Gregory what happened, we got down there, and I unlocked the door and I reached in and got the whiskey and handed it to the guy. And the Sheriff, he took the top off of it, and smelled of it, he said, “that’s the old Ball Rot Special.” (laughter) 36:00( ) and he stood there and talked with us, he said, “well, all I know, you take the car and I’ll take the whiskey.” I said, “that’s good enough for me.” BERGE: I’ll bet he drank the whiskey.

MILLS: More than likely he did.

BERGE: When—did most of you guys go to London when you got the chance?

MILLS: Well, yeah, most of them that is where they went. They had a skating rink in London there, and all them people go in there and skate and everything and sometimes they would go to Corbin. I had a car and we’d go to Corbin sometimes it was more open down there, had more than they had in London.

BERGE: Yeah. Did you—the fella you went in with where did he go? Did you ever find out? Do you remember?

MILLS: Ah, 37:00he was still there when I left, he stayed … BERGE: Oh, at Bald Rock?

MILLS: Yeah.

BERGE: Oh, ok.

MILLS: He stayed in two years. Then he left there, and went to Washington, and he worked up there ( ) till he died. He died young.

BERGE: Did—did most of the people who went in the three C’s from where you were from wind up at Bald Rock?

MILLS: Well, I had a brother younger than me, now he signed up, and he went to Danville at that camp down there and was only there maybe a week or so. And they sent him out west, I think it was ( ), I believe it was, and he only stayed six months and he come back. He only stayed six months.

BERGE: Huh. You wore army uniforms didn’t you?

MILLS: Yeah.

BERGE: Could you wear civilian clothes when you went into town after work?

MILLS: Yeah, you could wear civilian clothes, but most of the people didn’t have the money to buy civilian clothes, and we wore kaki 38:00in the summer time, and OD’s in the winter time. But the OD’s was green.

BERGE: Yeah. I can remember a boy across the street from me went in, seems like when they wore those OD’s, they were uniforms that someone had worn before.

MILLS: Yeah.

BERGE: I remember they ( ). Well, I guess you thought that was a pretty good experience don’t you?

MILLS: Well, I thought it was. I think it was a great thing myself, and I was telling a guy over here a while ago that I saw a movie on the way young kids were ( ) around before the CC’s opened up.

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: And some of them was going around bumming stuff to eat, and one guy, showed that he was from New York, and so many guys were going to New York City that that government, or the Mayor, put a sign outside of town on all main roads; that if you are looking for a job don’t come to New York, for we don’t have enough jobs for the 39:00people we got here. And so this one guy, he saw the sign and turned around got back—hoboed on the train—got back on the train, and went out west. And I think it stopped at Kansas City, I believe it was, and the railroad—the railroad Dick—they spotted one guy getting off the train, and he was younger than this one guy, and there was another train coming by the other way and he didn’t know it. And he run out in front of this train and it knocked him down and cut both—cut one of his legs off. One of the wheels run over him and cut the leg off 40:00and these other, I think it was Kansas City—they run ( ) doing the same thing; one of the guys jumped up in the box cars, and there was a girl in there, and she was hoboing out west too. And they finally got someplace, I think it was Texas, and they decided—this one guy said, “I’m going back home,” he said. He started out hitch hiking, then and then this girl she did the same thing. She left too and said she was going back home.

BERGE: Yeah. People who lived in the thirties like you and I , we remember that more than people who have lived any time since.

MILLS: Yeah, you find a box car that had a little straw in it where they had been hauling cattle or something, that is the one they would pick to hobo in, see. Get in there and lay down on that straw.

BERGE: I guess that was pretty important to you folks, that money that was sent back to them 41:00from the three C’s, wasn’t it?

MILLS: Well, I, my folks gave most of it back to me. Some of the people had to have it to live on.

BERGE: Sure. Sure. Did—could anybody get in the three C’s, or did you have to prove—like you had kind of a need? Do you remember?

MILLS: Well, anybody could go in there. But sometimes they found that ( ) the fella on the boards, if they didn’t check you out to see what your parents had—why just anybody could go in, but they checked some of them out and if the parents had enough money to live on see.

BERGE: Yeah. The time you spent in there it went pretty fast, didn’t it?

MILLS: Yeah, you were always doing something. Then when you were at the barracks, 42:00they had a Recreation Hall, you could play pool, or play cards or whatever you wanted to do.

BERGE: Well, is there anything you want to ask him?

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I can’t think of anything off hand.

BERGE: Well, Mr. Mills, we sure want to thank you for coming in and letting us do this interview with you, it really helps us out. Helps us find out things and everything. Did you gain weight or lose weight in the three C’s, do you remember?

MILLS: Well, I was nineteen or twenty years old when I went in there, so I probably gained maybe five pounds, I might have. But when I went in the army I never did gain much weight.

BERGE: What was the youngest you could be and go in the three C’s? How young were some of those guys, do you remember?

MILLS: I really don’t know … BERGE: Eighteen?

MILLS: Probably eighteen, but there were some in there younger than that, because they would take some of these guys that hadn’t had any( ), ( ),what they told them.

BERGE: Yeah.

MILLS: When I was serving in World War 43:00II, we had guys from Pennsylvania and he was overseas and he told them he was eighteen years old and he was only—wasn’t but seventeen years old.

BERGE: Yeah, I have heard a number of stories like that. Well, we sure want to thank you and I got something I would like to do before you leave … END OF SIDE TWO TAPE ONE END OF INTERVIEW.