Oral History Interview with Jack Hardin

WILLIAM BERGE: Mr. Hardin I want to thank you for coming all the way down here to Corbin this weekend to talk with me. I want to thank you again for letting me interview you last month up there in Louisville. There are just a few things I wanted to talk to you about, just sort of before we all get together this afternoon. Do you remember when you were down here, as I remember you 1:00came down with the very first group didn’t you?

JACK HARDIN: Very first.

BERGE: When you all came here there was no buildings or… HARDIN: Nothing.

BERGE: Do you remember how long it took you--how long you were down here before you had, say barrack facilities?

HARDIN: I’d say approximately between four and one-half and five months.

BERGE: Now you were here more than six months, weren’t you?

HARDIN: No.

BERGE: Oh, you just stayed the one six months? That’s right you were one of the ones that stayed here the six months and then went back and went to work. So when you were here they were really just—really that first group stayed six months. You were really just sort of getting the camp set up for the rest of the guys.

HARDIN: Right.

BERGE: Had they started work on any of the trails or anything yet when you left?

HARDIN: Oh, sure. Yeah. We 2:00done worked trails and dug parking lots done lots of the projects.

BERGE: Did you work on any of those—do you remember any specific trails you worked on? Where the trails were?

HARDIN: Just around the falls.

BERGE: Could you remember when you got down there on them; say this is one of the ones I worked on, that sort of thing?

HARDIN: I don’t know if I could remember, tell them or not. We did cut trails for people to walk back in the woods and around the falls and below the falls and up above the falls. I really don’t know where the trails are or if they are still there.

BERGE: Now you say you cut the trails; did you actually cut like trees and brush? Is that what you are talking about?

HARDIN: Cut everything. Ten foot wide.

BERGE: Then did you go through and smooth the tails out and level them and everything?

HARDIN; That’s right.

BERGE: Well you probably… HARDIN: Dragged the 3:00stumps out and the brush… BERGE: And the roots?

HARDIN: The roots… BERGE: What—did they put anything on the trails then or were they just dirt? Did you put gravel on them or anything?

HARDIN: Oh, no. Just dirt.

BERGE: Do you remember building steps?

HARDIN: Yeah. We dug steps.

BERGE: What did they build them out of? do you remember?

HARDIN: Sheet rock.

BERGE: They did. That’s—you know Steve was wondering about that. You do actually remember where you got the stones and the stuff to put them in. Now some of those steps have big, big rocks without mortar, but that’s not the ones you did, is it?

HARDIN: No. We didn’t use mortar.

BERGE: You didn’t use mortar? Just set them in?

HARDIN: Just set them in.

BERGE: Was there anybody skilled at that, did you all just learn to do it?

HARDIN: We just did it.

BERGE: When you came here and that first day, you know, you told me that story about how you all came here and you just sort of camped out for awhile until you got—can you 4:00remember where you took baths?

HARDIN: Where we what?

BERGE: Where did you take you baths when you first got here?

HARDIN: Cumberland River. (laughs) BERGE: Was it cold?

HARDIN. No, no we just… BERGE: Walking down there in about May and June… HARDIN: There was a trail from old man Harps farm , going down to the river… BERGE: Now Hal didn’t remember the farm that well.

HARDIN: And we would walk the trail and take a bath and walk back.

BERGE: Do you remember anything on that trail?

HARDIN: Of course, we saw snakes. (laughs) BERGE: Now was it strange for all you boys from Louisville to come down here, ( ) in the woods like that was it?

HARDIN: Well for some I suppose. But I had been partially raised on a farm, so for me it wasn’t anything unusual. 5:00BERGE: Were all of the first of you that came down here in the 509, were you all from Louisville?

HARDIN: No.

BERGE: You weren’t.

HARDIN: Ashland, Owensboro, and then we got some local talent.

BERGE: Now that was later wasn’t it when they started coming in?

HARDIN: No, the Ashland and Owensboro and all of us wound up at Corbin. We got on the truck. I don’t know if they come form Louisville or where they come from—Ashland and Owensboro… BERGE: You don’t know if they came from Fort Knox with you all?

HARDIN: I don’t know.

BERGE: When you all came down from Fort Knox to Corbin, did you come by truck or train?

HARDIN: Train.

BERGE: Now Hal couldn’t remember that, he couldn’t remember—but he remember coming here on truck. But he didn’t know where you picked up the truck. This—do you remember the time when you were here an educational program of any kind?

HARDIN: Yeah. Two.

BERGE: What were they, do you remember?

HARDIN: Well we had a forestration, you could 6:00learn about trees and plants and things, I took that course… BERGE: Do you remember who taught it?

HARDIN: No, I don’t remember his name. Then they had a Lieutenant that had wings, he was an Air Force Lieutenant and he gave us, or some of us, I don’t think that there were very many that wanted to learn to fly. But I did take it, I took his course.

BERGE: Huh-huh.

HARDIN: He was a pretty good instructor.

BERGE: Were those good courses?

HARDIN: Of course. For me it was.

BERGE: Yeah. Yeah. It was something to keep you busy.

HARDIN: I’d had biology before and of course, this mountain stuff was different than we had. I was glad to take the course, but like I said in the flying course—well, he wanted to teach you to want to fly an airplane—the lift and this—how you guided it and everything 7:00about an airplane, except the mechanics. Of course, the mechanics, I am not eliminating how you lift the plane off the ground and ( ). But actual motor and all we didn’t work on or nothing like that. He just drew diagrams… BERGE: He taught the theory of it though.

HARDIN: Oh yeah. Yeah.

BERGE: Where did you have those classes? Do you remember?

HARDIN: Well, we had it somewhere, I guess.

BERGE: In one of those buildings, huh?

HARDIN: Yeah, in a building—like I say a hall, I think it was the rec hall. Yeah, the recreation hall.

BERGE: Mr. Blunk, remembers when you all built the water tower. Do you remember building that?

HARDIN: Of course I do.

BERGE: He talked about that a little bit. So it really—they 8:00just dumped you off in a field down there, and you all built a little town down there.

HARDIN: That’s the name of the game. We sure did.

BERGE: Do you ever remember seeing many of the people in the—that were guests in the park?

HARDIN; Of course.

BERGE: Did you ever talk to them?

HARDIN: Oh, yeah.

BERGE: What a… HARDIN: They come from everywhere. You could walk through the parking lot and see licenses from everywhere. License plates from everywhere. Oh, yeah.

BERGE: Did you know any of the state employees who worked in the park? Did you meet any of them when you were here?

HARDIN: Oh, Mark Hardin and his wife run the lodge down there, of course, I knew them ‘cause they had the same name.

BERGE; Huh-huh.

HARDIN: My name is Hardin. I become acquainted with them pretty well, but like I said they had a—was like a U and there was a stump in the middle and I was on a project 9:00to get that stump out of there. We had to use dynamite mats and dynamite to blow the stump up. But we did it and didn’t hurt the building at all.

BERGE: Did you ever see that Moonbow Inn when you were here?

HARDIN; Of course.

BERGE: Wonder how those people that owned that felt about the park being down here?

HARDIN: I don’t know, because we didn’t got over there very much, if at all.

BERGE: They… HARDIN; I went over one time and I didn’t go to Moonbow Inn, I went to walk the cliff. See how close I could get to the falls. I wondered why we couldn’t go underneath the falls and go on out the other side. But you couldn’t. Could have been maybe, blasted out and done but, I don’t think anybody wanted to spend that kind of money or time. It would have been nice if they could have.

BERGE: Oh, yeah. People would have loved 10:00walking through there.

HARDIN: But they didn’t.

BERGE: Did you go across the river much?

HARDIN: Oh, yeah.

BERGE: About the only way—you had to ford it, didn’t you?

HARDIN: Well you could up stream from the falls, when the water was low they would ford it. If you wanted to cross it when it was high, they had a pull deal… BERGE: A basket?

HARDIN: You would climb up a ladder and get in this thing and pull yourself across.

BERGE: You remember that basket?

HARDIN: Oh, yeah.

BERGE: Where was that?

HARDIN: Up river from the falls about. I’d say, one hundred and fifty yards, up—yeah, I went across in it. (laughs) BERGE: You did it and pulled yourself across, that right? Did tourists use that?

HARDIN: I don’t know, I never saw anybody use it but me.

BERGE: Were 11:00you by yourself when you went across?

HARDIN: No. Some of the guys were there. I don’t remember who, but… BERGE: Do you remember much athletic stuff?

HARDIN: Oh, sure.

BERGE: What kind of athletics did they have here?

HARDIN: Mostly boxing. ‘Course Blunk and I and another fella, we would trot or run to the falls… BERGE: Who was the other one that ran with you? Do you remember?

HARDIN: Eddie Krish.

BERGE: Where was he from?

HARDIN: Louisville.

BERGE: Now does Mr. Blunk remember him?

HARDIN: I guess he does.

BERGE: Did you ask him?

HARDIN: Yeah.

BERGE: Did he said he… HARDIN: He said, “yes.” BERGE: Did they have a baseball—here?

HARDIN: Yeah, we had a baseball team a good one.

BERGE: Did you play anybody else?

HARDIN: Oh, yes.

BERGE: Who did you play, do you remember?

HARDIN: Played different ones in Corbin… BERGE: High schools and stuff like that?

HARDIN: Yeah. Anybody we could get a game with. We played football too.

BERGE: You did?

HARDIN: Oh, yeah. We had 12:00a ex-all state quarterback from Ashland, named Marvin Hoggston, and he was a goody. He was a good quarterback. Of course, I played half-back… BERGE: Who did you all—do you remember who you played?

HARDIN: I don’t remember what they called themselves, but we played once over at Williamsburg, Cumberland College and I think a couple of times in Corbin.

BERGE: Did you have uniforms?

HARDIN: Well, we had partially, (laughs). Not uniforms, but partially.

BERGE: Did you have helmets and stuff like that?

HARDIN: Some helmets.

BERGE: Who played besides you and that man, do you remember?

HARDIN: We had Red Sturgil, he played full back, he was a heavy set guy from Ormsby Village. He’d been raised in Ormsby Village. I played 13:00against him once and I forget the name of the school; Blunk and I was trying to remember last night and couldn’t figure out what it was, but he was a pretty good ball player too. I can’t picture who else, no… BERGE: Do you remember—you were part of the group that went over there and fought that big fire at Packard weren’t you?

HARDIN: Right.

BERGE: They tell me that, that was the fire that got in the top. Is that right?

HARDIN: Well, I guess… BERGE: It was a bad fire though.

HARDIN: It was a bad one yeah. Well when we got there the whole skyline was lit up. We 14:00stayed there I guess, a day and one-half or a night and one-half, I’ll put it that way. It took quite a while to get it under… BERGE: Do you remember any other fires?

HARDIN: Of course.

BERGE: Where were they?

HARDIN: I went to Sterns to fight one, fought one at Pineville, and down, well on Pine Mountain we fought one, I don’t know, I… BERGE: Were any of them around here?

HARDIN: Yeah.

BERGE: Do you remember it?

HARDIN: Yeah. But I wasn’t called on that one. I know they had one down around here somewhere.

BERGE: Did it get close to your camps or… HARDIN: No.

BERGE: Do you remember a garage burning down there?

HARDIN: No.

BERGE: Let me ask you some other stuff. Do you remember that stuffed wildcat they talk about?

HARDIN: (laughs) Do you mean the real one or the one that got in the latrine?

BERGE: Yeah. the one that got in the latrine.

HARDIN: It did. (laughter) 15:00Yeah they told me about that.

BERGE: What is the most dangerous work that you had to do when you worked with the CCC?

HARDIN: I didn’t think any of it was dangerous. As I said, we dynamited and we… BERGE: Were they pretty careful about people in accidents and things like that?

HARDIN: Oh yes. Oh, yes. Very careful. The only ones that ever got hurt was when we was shaken steel—drilling for the parking lot. Sometimes some of them boys with them sixteen pound sledges would make a mess, well he would peel this guys fingers (makes a sound) you know; and he would have to sit there and turn the steel pull it up and shake it and a lot of times they would get hit. Depending on who was swinging the sledge.

BERGE: Did they have any medical care? Did they go to the doctor?

HARDIN: Oh yeah.

BERGE: Was he right here at the camp?

HARDIN: Yeah, we had a doctor and we had medics.

BERGE: Did they have like a little hospital tent?

HARDIN: Yeah. They 16:00had a little hospital tent; if it was anything serious they would go to Corbin.

BERGE: Jack, who were the medics? Were they CCC campers?

HARDIN; Well the medics were. Yeah.

BERGE: Do you remember the doctors names?

HARDIN: No. I remember one of the medics named, Green’s all I know. He was from Ashville. We called him Doc Green. Of course, he wasn’t no doctor he was a medic. And a good one.

BERGE: What was considered the best jobs here in the CCC. What were the kind of jobs that people really wanted to get?

HARDIN: I don’t think they did. I don’t think there were any better jobs.

BERGE: They just—everybody worked together and they liked what they did. Now that is what you told me last time.

HARDIN: Well, like I said, one fella’s a bugler; well when Jerry Rice wanted it, I took him up on the bridge and taught him how to make the calls that we had to make. We didn’t have that many calls. 17:00So he in return taught me to play the ukulele. He got the bugler job which I didn’t want.

BERGE: Yeah. do you remember—did they ever have any dances or anything like that?

HARDIN: No.

BERGE: Did you ever date any of these girls around here?

HARDIN: Yeah.

BERGE: Where were they? Where did the girls come from that you all… HARDIN: Well, at the side camps, Mountain Ash, I dated a school teacher. When we left there we went around to Fowler, outside of Barbourville, I dated Anatom Kilroy, she was a school teacher.

BERGE: You were after those school teachers, weren’t you?

HARDIN: No, not particularly. It just happened I guess.

BERGE: How did you meet them? I mean were they interested in the CCC or… HARDIN: Well, they wanted to know about the CCC and the girl in Williamsburg, 18:00her brother was in our camp and I drove him home. His sister, Ruby Easton, was a right pretty girl, so she and I got to talking and so I took her to the picture show. From then on, I’d drive him home on the week end and I’d take her out.

BERGE: You were one of the lucky ones with a car, weren’t you?

HARDIN: Well, I mean, it wasn’t that much of a car, but it would run. Twenty-nine Pontiac coup.

BERGE: At least you could get out of there. I was only four years old then. The—did most of the boys that you knew feel good about the work, being in the CCC? Were they pretty happy?

HARDIN: Oh yeah, they loved it. They enjoyed their selves, sure. They had enough money, you didn’t need a whole lot of money, like I said, 19:00you got five dollars a month. I don’t know what you needed five dollars for; except for shaving soap maybe blades, cigarettes if you smoked and like I say, five dollars was more than you could spend almost so… BERGE: Do you—if somebody—and I am asking you—how important do you think having been in the CCC was to you in your life?

HARDIN: Very important.

BERGE: How come?

HARDIN; Well, like I said before you learned discipline, you learned to take orders, and you also, I guess picked up how to give orders the right way, not the wrong way the right way. 20:00BERGE: Do you--over the years have you met other people that were in the CCC and talked with them about it?

HARDIN: Quite a few.

BERGE: Who are some of them that you have met?

HARDIN: Well, my neighbor, Ed Jeffries, was in Wyoming and I don’t know… BERGE: Is he still your neighbor?

HARDIN: Oh yeah. Yeah, they done erosion work and he told me some of the stuff they done. It wasn’t like ours. I don’t remember how long he said he was in there or what.

BERGE: What is the most important thing you all did here? (knock on the door) Come in.

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Looking for me?

BERGE: Yeah. Come on in.

HARDIN: The parking lot, I would say.

BERGE: Hello, Gabe. What I’m doing is just sort of finishing—we got a little ahead of ourselves and I thought that—because 21:00I don’t really have to talk to you and Jack too long and I figured we could bet finished with all these individual ones this morning and this afternoon we could in one big—get the four of you then we would all have some more time, you know to look around. I just want to thank you for this Jack, and why don’t you wait around while I talk to Gabe and we will all three of us go up there together.

END OF TAPE.