Oral History Interview with John R. Bell

WILLIAM BERGE: The following is an unrehearsed tape interview with Mr. John R. Bell, of Bartlett, Tennessee. The interview is conducted by William Berge for the Kentucky Oral History Commission, on October 6, 1990, at 8:30 A.M. The interview is conducted at the Cumberland Falls State Park. Mr. Bell… JOHN. R. BELL: Yes, sir.

BERGE: Tell me your full name, and when you were born, and where?

BELL: John R. Bell. I was—I’m seventy-four, and I was borned in Hickman, Kentucky in 1916.

BERGE: 1916. What was your father’s name?

BELL: Joe Bell.

BERGE: Joe Bell, and what was your mother’s name?

BELL: Bea Green Bell.

BERGE: Her maiden name was Green?

BELL: That is correct.

BERGE: Where was she—where were they from?

BELL: They were from up around the state line up there—out from Hickman.

BERGE: Ok, and he was—your father 1:00was from up in there too?

BELL: Yeah, he was more from over about Kingman, a little town close to Troy.

BERGE: What did he do?

BELL: He was a farmer.

BERGE: Where did you go to school?

BELL: I went to school at Hickman. Hickman High School, one of the best high schools around there. When you got through there they said it was equal to college.

BERGE: Did you graduate high school?

BELL: Graduated high school, and it was a school where you got it or got out. And you didn’t pick the subjects. I had four years English, four years Science, and I took, Psychology, Economics and Sociology. I couldn’t get out easy.

BERGE: How did you get in the CCC’s—when did you start in it?

BELL: After I graduated high school in May, of 1935, my father signed for me to go in the CC Camp at ( ). We really needed it, because of the need that we had at home.

BERGE: Oh, yeah, the depression was going on then.

BELL: That’s right.

BERGE: Tell me this, 2:00did you know about the CCC’s before you got in?

BELL: I had heard a little about it. A little about it. And of course, if you weren’t in that category—what I mean by category, when you ( ) or something, why you couldn’t get in. That’s the reason I got in. And I had two little brothers—they got in.

BERGE: Yeah, huh-hum. Where were you living when you went in the CC’s?

BELL: Hickman, Kentucky.

BERGE: In Hickman, Kentucky. When you went in, where were you sent to?

BELL: I was sent to Clinton, Kentucky, and examined there, and sent on over to Columbus, which is about ten miles.

BERGE: Where is Columbus exactly?

BELL: Columbus is right on the Mississippi River and the park is called Belmont Park.

BERGE: Ok. Is that where you were doing work? Around the park?

BELL: Working on the park. And when you go in they interview you, and whatever qualifications you have, they put you with the crew that work out. And each one had a foreman, and they would come 3:00in there during the morning, and they were local, and they would show us boys how and what to do.

BERGE: Huh-huh. What did you do there?

BELL: Well, when they interviewed and took me down I was on the ( ) crew. And we built the building where you paid to go in, and we put guard rails around the river.

BERGE: Huh-huh. How long were you there?

BELL: Two years and two days.

BERGE: And that was at Columbus?

BELL: Well, when the camp broke up I was sent up to Greenville, and that is when I came home.

BERGE: Greenville, Kentucky?

BELL: Greenville, Kentucky. I had to cross the river on the ferry.

BERGE: What was at Greenville?

BELL: Oh, they had a rock quarry up there.

BERGE: And you decided to go home. (laughs) BELL: I decided to go home. I got me a job. My brother-in-law worked at Bruce Lumber Company in Memphis and I got a job there.

BERGE: Oh, so you worked until you got a job … BELL: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

BERGE: What did you—how 4:00did you like it at Columbus?

BELL: Oh, Columbus was fine, and I was about thirty-five miles from home. And they give me three meals a day, and two suits of clothes; and that was more than I had at home.

BERGE: Did you go home much?

BELL: Occasionally, yes, I would. I would hitch-hike home. And sometimes there would be a--a man would carry four, or five, six, seven of us back. It cost thirty-five cent to go each way.

BERGE: So you would pay him for the ride.

BELL: Yes, pay him for the ride.

BERGE: When you were there, were you with many of your friends?

BELL: Oh, I, I made many friends. And there was five barracks, and of course, there was the Mess Hall, the Rec Hall, and the Latrine it was nice, it was nice.

BERGE: Tell me, when you went in there, did anybody go with you?

BELL: No, I didn’t know anyone. There was about two hundred of us from Hickman Kentucky, and I am sorry to say, I was the only one that graduated from high school.

BERGE: Huh! Did you know any of them that couldn’t read and write?

BELL: Yes, 5:00if you bring that up, I, a, one fella walked up to me one time, that I knew at Hickman, and he walked up to me and he called me off, and he asked me would I read a letter for him. He had received a letter from his girl friend, and he couldn’t read it. I read the letter, and then later on I wrote a letter to her for him.

BERGE: Did they try to teach them to read and write?

BELL: Oh, we had a, a—we had a Education Advisor, plus an Assistant Education Advisor. Oh, yes, sir, if you wanted to learn, you could learn there.

BERGE: And they did have classes for them and everything?

BELL: Oh, yes. Every evening had classes.

BERGE: Did you know anybody that went?

BELL: Oh, yeah, there were quite a few in the camp attended those. But there were so many that were not educated. That is true.

BERGE: I guess that it was a help for your family when they sent that money home to them.

BELL: Oh, yes. Poor momma, 6:00she is dead and gone now, but she saved some of it for me.

BERGE: Did she?

BELL: Oh, she sure did.

BERGE: Couldn’t afford to do it, but did it anyway.

BELL: Did it anyway. Did it anyway. Actually the money she saved for me, when I came to Memphis, and went to work for Bruce Lumber company, for twenty-two and one-half cents an hour, it helped buy my first Model A Ford.

BERGE: Is that right?

BELL: That’s right. (laughter) BERGE: When you were in the CC, I guess you already said, I guess you thought the food was good, you said.

BELL: Oh, it was fine. And then when you made friends, they would come out there and they ( ) to eat, and they got to get in line, you see, and then they will come out, the cooks will, and they will say give me five to help serve, see. And if you got a friend, why you pass where he is serving, why you get a little more, you follow me?

BERGE: Yeah. Yeah.

BELL: That was 7:00part of it.

BERGE: Having a friend in the serving line.

BELL: Why, yeah, and then, when I first went in, I worked in the field, thirteen months. And then I got to be an orderly--and all the foremen--had to serve the foremen food, but then, all of them stayed out, I didn’t have that to do but on the ECW office where the--they worked up all the blueprints and everything. Well, I was there, and I did their errand during the daytime. When I wasn’t doing that, I would go to the Mess Hall and sit down and read the paper and talk to the cook. And during, after I did that, instead of gittin’ in line with everybody, I went in the other door, I went in with the cooks and I didn’t have to wait.

BERGE: Did you eat before the others got in there?

BALL: No we always waited until the others got in there. But when they would open a can of pineapple, and they would put the pineapple in the ( ) and the pineapple juice was left? I got in on that. 8:00Oh, I had a wonderful time. It was great.

BERGE: What did they do, in the camp—where was the camp exactly, was it on the river?

BALL: It was on the river, and was located ten miles from Clinton, Kentucky. And we restored the old Civil War—where the Civil War was fought over there. You see, there was a—there was a anchor over there and this large anchor was mounted in concrete. And it had chain links … BERGE: Across the river.

BALL: Across the river. And those chain links weighed between fifteen and twenty pounds, and were connected. And it went across the river, and it had floats, to float that chain, and that chain would be so many feet under water. And it had a chain, ah, an anchor on the other side, and when the—when the Confederates—I mean, yeah Confederates, or no the Union would bring a boat down, that chain under the water would stop it. That iron chain, see. And so we mounted that in concrete 9:00and, hell, there was a cannon over there, and it was so far from the bank, and the ( ) they let the cannon get away. And then over there, we would fill the trenches—and they had the old hospital is still there—and they restored it, and they put the old guns and relics in there.

BERGE: Hum-hum.

BALL: And they had trenches over there, and then in 1935 there was a ( ) three inch tube—and that tube led from one trench to the other and they would talk to each other. And when I went back up there forty-five years later, I went over there, and I looked at that tube and a tree had grown over one end of it.

BERGE: Huh. So you found it?

BALL: I found it. I found it.

BERGE: Tell me this—you stayed about two years, and then they left and you went to Greenville, why did they leave, did they finish the work?

BALL: Then the camp began to break up, and that one there was finished, see.

BERGE: Huh-huh.

BALL: And, ah, we 10:00had a Captain Davis I hate to say old, but he was an old army man and he was strict.

BERGE: What do you remember about social life, did you go into town much?

BALL: Oh, a little town was about a mile, and we would go into town. Of course, I had come from Hickman, and I wasn’t used to staying up at night and doing these things. And we would go over, what you call a Honky-Tonk and they would play music; but about nine or nine-thirty me and my buddy, we would go back and go to bed. That was just about the limit.

BERGE: You didn’t stay long.

BALL: We stayed about as long as we wanted to.

BERGE: Yeah.

BALL: And, ah … BERGE: Mr. ( ) come over here and sit. And what else did they—did they ever have anything for ah, social things? 11:00BALL: Oh, they about once a month, they would have a dance in the Rec Hall. Now the Rec Hall was a large hall, where there were ping-pong tables. And they would subscribe for the papers of the town that you were from, and they were hung on a rack. And every week when they come in, they would be put on that rack, and you could go over there any time you got ready and read it. And have a ping-pong table in there and they would clean that out and have dances. And the truck—the army truck, would go around to the small towns, and those boys would give the girls names, and they would pick them up and bring them in there for the dance. Oh, it was nice.

BERGE: When you left there and went to Memphis, of course, you stayed down there the rest of your life.

BALL: Yes. I went to work at Bruce Lumber Company worked there for about three years. Then I went to Fischer Air—Fischer Aircraft—I was called to service and my eyes—they put me in limited service and they never did call me. And then 12:00I went to work for ( ) Automobile Parts, NAPA, you see that everywhere. And I went to work and I worked for thirty-five and one-half years and retired from there.

BERGE: That is in Memphis?

BALL: That is in Memphis, and it is all over the United States.

BERGE: Yeah. Let me ask you something. What about your experience in the CC’s, did you think was helpful to you in your life?

BALL: Oh, it meant so much to me because—just out of home, and to go up there, I learned so much about doing for myself, and then ( ). And I learned that you got to get on your own and do it yourself. And then, when I went to Memphis I knew all that. If it hadn’t been for my poor mother, she is dead and gone now, she went to the cotton fields to keep me in school or I would never have graduated from high school; and there was six of us and the 13:00other five quit.

BERGE: Did they grow that much cotton around here then?

BALL: Oh, yes, and in the bottom--the bottom of Hickman it is rich soil.

BERGE: Huh-huh.

BALL: Oh, yeah.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Well, Mr. Bell I really want to thank you and thank you for those two articles too. I am going to keep them.

BALL: All right, and read them.

BERGE: Oh, I will don’t worry. Let me get this filled out before you leave.

END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE END OF INTERVIEW.