Oral History Interview with Everett Ledford

WILLIAM BERGE: The following is an unrehearsed tape interview with Mr. Robert Ledford of Clay County Kentucky. The interview is conducted by Mr. William Berge for the Oral History Commission of Kentucky, on October 5, 1990. The interview is conducted at Cumberland Falls State Park and we are going to start by asking Mr. Ledford to tell us what his full name is, and where he was born, and when he was born.

EVERETT LEDFORD: Well, I’m ah, Everett Ledford is my name and I live in Clay County, Manchester, and I have lived there the biggest part of my life. I was in the CCC two years and I enjoyed it, 1:00it was a good life.

BERGE: What year were you born?

LEDFORD: I was born in twenty-three. March 16, 1923.

BERGE: All right, what was your father’s name?

LEDFORD: Tommy Ledford.

BERGE: What was your mother’s name?

LEDFORD: Bertha.

BERGE: What was her maiden name?

LEDFORD: Burns.

BERGE: Burns, huh-huh. Tell me this, where abouts in Clay County were you born?

LEDFORD: Well, it was on Redbird.

BERGE: Oh, yeah.

LEDFORD: You have heard of Redbird. Near Redbird.

BERGE: You know the Markhams then. Markhams, people like that.

LEDFORD: Yes, yes, I went to school with some of the Markhams over there; course that had been a long time ago.

BERGE: Let me ask you this, Mr. Redford, where did you go to school?

LEDFORD: Ah, Laurel school house. Laurel.

BERGE: Remember who your teacher was there?

LEDFORD: Ah, yeah. Mary Lipps.

BERGE: L-i-p-p-s?

LEDFORD: L-i-p-p-s, yes. Mary Lipps and I had that, 2:00ah, at the time I went there were two or three different teachers, but I can’t remember all of them.

BERGE: She is the one you remember the best?

LEDFORD: She is the one I remember the best, yeah.

BERGE: What year did you go in the CCC?

LEDFORD: Ah, I believe—not too sure—I believe it was in the forties though.

BERGE: Well, it was over about forty.

LEDFORD: I stayed in about two years.

BERGE: Huh-huh. You were one of the young ones in the camp—you were the last bunch weren’t you?

LEDFORD: One of the last ones.

BERGE: How did you ever hear about it?

LEDFORD: Well, back when I was a boy—you know—I could see—there was CCC in the community. I mean there was not a camp close, but they was always coming through working, and you know things like that. They would come through and you know forest fires, you know and work on roads and things like that… BERGE: Mr. Leprodes you want to sit here a minute, I am going to interview one of them in a minute. No, just 3:00have a seat. (to someone who had just come in the room).

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I’m gonna leave; this is Hal’s seat.

BERGE: Ok Mr. Speagle, Bill Burries, if you don’t mind listening while I… BURRIES: No, that is quite all right, go right ahead. (several voices talking at once in the background).

BERGE: Yeah. Yeah.

LEDFORD: Well, anyway… BERGE: Have a seat.

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Well, I am getting to be an old man… BERGE: Everybody is here.

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: About all we have here is senior citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED VOICES: It better be today hadn’t it? Right.

BERGE: When you first went in Everett, where did you go? Did you sign up in Manchester?

LEDFORD: No, let’s see… BERGE: Or London or where?

LEDFORD: Ah, Manchester with McKee was as far as I got.

BERGE: You didn’t go very far then did you?

LEDFORD: McKee was the—ah, the—whatever you call it where you went for—when you first came in—this part of the community—this part of the country they came through there 4:00to be routed where they was going, see?

BERGE: Huh-huh. And where did you go?

LEDFORD: Well, that was as far as I went.

BERGE: Yeah. What did you do there?

LEDFORD: Well at first I was a truck driver—first I was a shovel operator then I got a job driving a truck. I had never driven a car or a truck in my life; and they put me on the pick and shovel. And I thought, ‘surely there must be a better job than this.’ ( ) I was always wanting to drive a truck, see. So I went to the garage foreman and asked him to give me a truck driving job. So he asked me if I could drive. I said sure. Lied like a dog you know, but anyway he thought he would try me out. But anyway, when I was around the equipment I watched every signal they give—I was interested in it, 5:00and I watched it to learn, you see. And he took me out and give me a test and I passed.

BERGE: So you got to be a truck driver then.

LEDFORD: I got to be a truck driver.

BERGE: How long did you stay in there?

LEDFORD: Two years.

BERGE: And always at McKee?

LEDFORD: Hum-hum.

BERGE: What kind of work did you do at McKee? What were they doing there?

LEDFORD: Well, we built roads, worked on roads and most of all, on weekends, we had fire duty. When fires in the forest were around we would fight fires.

BERGE: Did you go all the way over to Estill County?

LEDFORD: No, no I don’t remember going out of… BERGE: Jackson… LEDFORD: Jackson County.

BERGE: Where did you build those roads? Down in Raccoon and… LEDFORD: Well, just…(Berge talks over his answer, can’t hear him) BERGE: …places like that?

LEDFORD: I can’t tell you where we were because we, I don’t know, can’t remember the names of them anymore.

BERGE: There is a fire tower up at Estree. I was thinking maybe you were up in there.

LEDFORD: And some of those places we would go and have to fight 6:00fires. And I was truck driver and so I would deliver the fire crew out and then I would go back into camp for lunch. (he means to pick up food for the crew) We had chow cans we called them, cans they would always be full of food and I would take them back out there.

BERGE: Take them back out… LEDFORD: And things like that and then, just before I left, then I made a shift to leader. They put me on (as) ambulance driver and they put me on the service truck. At that time didn’t have anything delivering much—delivery service ( ) trucks on—they come by rail to Berea and I would have to go down and pick it up.

BERGE: All came by rail.

LEDFORD: Yeah. 7:00We had a—once a week we would have a movie and I would go down and pick up the tape—you know the projector and the film and then I would take it back and put it on the train.

BERGE: And they had movies at the camp?

LEDFORD: Yes, movies.

BERGE: This must have been a later development, because in those earlier places they didn’t have stuff like that.

LEDFORD: This was--well the last two years.

BERGE: Yeah. How many of you were up there do you remember?

LEDFORD: Don’t remember.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Was it a pretty good camp?

LEDFORD: Pretty good size.

BERGE: Where was that camp? ( ) LEDFORD: Well, do you know where the housing project is up around—coming east, I guess it is, towards Manchester?

BERGE: Yeah.

LEDFORD: In the curve up there right over the Chev—in fact there is a, or was, a water tank up on the hill… BERGE: I remember that.

LEDFORD: Had F 13 on it—water tank up on the hill. That was where they got all the water for the camp.

BERGE: I guess you got home pretty often then?

LEDFORD: Well, ( ) almost ever week. 8:00I didn’t have a car or anything so I would either have to hitch-hike or ride with someone else you know and—except when I started driving—did have fire duty quite a bit see had to stay—ever week-end one crew for fire duty and we would have to stay there.

BERGE: Were there a lot of fires?

LEDFORD: Well, there were quite a few during the fire season in the summer.

BERGE: Were you all trained for that? Were they trained for that fire duty pretty good?

LEDFORD: Had to get out and take their exercise every morning so it was pretty good for young boys. I really enjoyed it. I am glad… BERGE: What did you do after that? What kind of work did you do after you got out of camp?

LEDFORD: Well, after I got out of camp I went to Ohio and went to work up there. Edwards Manufacturing Company 9:00was where they made ammunition boxes and so forth.

BERGE: During the war?

LEDFORD: During the war, yeah. And I registered up there for the army, you know for war and so forth, and decided to come home. Come to Clay County and stay for a while so came the registration from Ohio to Kentucky and I got a call from two different states at the same time.

BERGE: (laughs) You were registered in two states at the same time.

LEDFORD: But still I just left—I went from Kentucky.

BERGE: Well, what, did you go in the army?

LEDFORD: The army, yes. Field Artillery.

BERGE: Where were you stationed?

LEDFORD: Well I took Basic Training at Camp Blanding, Florida.

BERGE: Huh-huh. What was the—in your experience in the CCC—do you think it was a good experience or a bad experience?

LEDFORD: Good experience.

BERGE: What was the best thing about it? 10:00LEDFORD: Well, they taught you how to take care of yourself and you took exercise. And in fact, it was good for young boys; because they had sick calls and doctors and all that and took care of you.

BERGE: What do you remember about the life in camp? Do you remember the food? The good food?

LEDFORD: Far as I can remember, yeah. Far as I can remember it was good food. I never seen a problem anywhere. Of course, you know how young boys are they don’t like camps—being tied up, things like that.

BERGE: They complain about stuff whether they… LEDFORD: They’d complain if they had feather beds to sleep on. Makes no difference about some boys, but I enjoyed it as far as that goes.

BERGE: Did you—did you ever keep up with some of the people you were stationed with? I mean that you were there in the camp with after? Did you ever run into any of them again? 11:00LEDFORD: Hardly ever. Now I knew—fact I don’t remember any of them ever—may on occasion run into one something like that?

BERGE: Where were most of them from Mr. Ledford, do you remember? The ones you were with?

LEDFORD: Don’t remember.

BERGE: You don’t remember. What did they do—you said you had movies—what else did they do for entertainment up there?

LEDFORD: Pool hall, rec hall, pool table and things like that.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Worked out Ok though.

LEDFORD: Yeah. Yeah.

BERGE: Did you ever think about… LEDFORD: ( ) you know where you clean up—shave and clean up, it was a ( ). In fact it didn’t cost you anything… BERGE: Have a seat. (someone just entered the room) LEDFORD: You just--everything 12:00was furnished except dress clothes you know, and things like that. Tooth brush and shaving cream, you had to buy that yourself.

BERGE: Did you ever think that it might—that in recent years—that that experience was so good that the government should have continued something like that after the war?

LEDFORD: Well, really, I think for young people it should be happening right now.

BERGE: You thought that it was that positive an experience.

LEDFORD: Well, that’s it. You take the young people they’re pretty well taught how to take care of themselves. And they learn you know, how to respect and they learn a lot of things. I think it is a good thing for young boys. 13:00BERGE: Huh-huh. Have you gotten to any of these meetings before, things like this?

LEDFORD: No, uh-uh.

BERGE: This your first one?

LEDFORD: Huh-huh. No, I never… BERGE: Yeah. It’s is kind of interesting to meet some of these people. You were one of the younger ones.

LEDFORD: Oh, yeah.

BERGE: Most of these people—what year did you say you were born?

LEDFORD: Twenty-three.

BERGE: Yeah, see most of these people were born like in the teens. What year were you born? (aside to someone in the room) UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Fifteen.

BERGE: Fifteen. So that was—you were right, you came in at the end of it.

LEDFORD: Yeah. Actually I went in at seventeen at that. You were supposed to be eighteen, but anyway—I don’t know how—my dad he thought I wasn’t doing too good a working around home I guess and so—of course, I helped do everything that needed to be done around the farm, you see, there wasn’t much to do. So he went to this Magistrate over there and asked him if he could help get me in. 14:00BERGE: Huh-huh.

LEDFORD: So he (the Magistrate) got me in. My name is really Everett, but he didn’t know me and he went and turned my name in as Albert, and so I have been going by it in the CCC.

BERGE: (laughs) LEDFORD: Every time I come over here ( ), I would use my name Everett, that is my real name. My social security and everything is… BERGE: But in the CCC you are Albert.

LEDFORD: But in the CCC all the men that knew me as Albert and so I have been going by it in the CCC.

BERGE: That’s funny. That’s funny.

LEDFORD: Because when I went in the CC’s they called me as Albert and I said now, there is no need to change it, I’ll just go that way till my time runs out. I didn’t know how to change anything. At that time I didn’t have to have a social security number, because social security 15:00hadn’t come out then.

BERGE: Yeah. It had just come out about that time.

LEDFORD: It may have come out, but anyway I didn’t have one. Didn’t have it till I got out of the CCC and started to work in Ohio and I had to have a social security.

BERGE: Well, that is pretty good. Your experience is different than others in that you went in toward the end of it and you also didn’t go far from home. You were just twenty miles from home.

LEDFORD: Well at that time—but I was ambulance driver and I had to take the sick to Fort Thomas… BERGE: Oh, that was—that was the original office.

LEDFORD: Fort Thomas was where ( ) took the sick along up there.

BERGE: That was a long trip up there.

LEDFORD: Once a year I had—once a year I had to change uniforms see. I had summer uniforms, winter uniforms, but it was just like khaki in the summer and 16:00blue, you know—the winter uniform was different. They got new uniforms most time and I would have to go up and get them. It was pretty much of an experience I enjoyed it. I liked camp life and I think it is good for any young person.

BERGE: Did they have any athletics, did they have a ball team or anything like that do you remember?

LEDFORD: Well, if they did I wasn’t in it. Now, I don’t remember any teams there.

BERGE: Huh-huh. Well I sure do want to thank you for coming down here and me grabbing you off the patio and have you come down here for me.

LEDFORD: Yeah, well ok, that… BERGE: I might—you don’t live too far from me over there in Woods Creek Lake in Laurel County--so I might call you sometime and come over there and ask you some more questions at Manchester, if you don’t mind. 17:00 Okeydoke?

LEDFORD: Yeah, that’s ok.

END OF SIDE ONE TAPE ONE END OF INTERVIEW.