[Begin Interview] Bennett: How's (?) Hite: Doing pretty good.
Bennett: (?) Hite: The following is an interview with Warren Bennett by Mary
Hite for the Kentucky Oral History Commission. We're studying Prohibition in Nelson County, its causes and effects. The interview was conducted in Taylorsville, Spencer County, Kentucky. On the main street of Taylorsville. May the twenty-first, 1989. Mr. Bennett, I understand you have a few Nelson County connections. Would you mind giving us a little update on your family? Where they came from and-- 1:00Bennett: In Nelson County. Let's see now. Well, my grandfather and grandmother, Lily, both lived down on Salt River. And that's where I was born. And my grandfather married a lady from Louisville whose name was Anna Warren. And she came out to Goodman Springs neighborhood to teach school. And married Ed Lily, my grandfather. And they had several children, one of them named Hallie, who was my mother. And one named Warren, who became a Jesuit priest. And Bernard, who married Eleanor (Crume?). And as far as Nelson County, 2:00my mother came from Nelson County. But my father lived in Spencer County all his life. But they had thirteen children, and one in the Catholic school here. So we went over on the farm where my mother was born and raised, and went to school in Fairfield, and started out in the first grade at St. Michael's. And then my grandfather and grandmother moved to Fairfield. And several of my brothers and sisters (moved to ??) and stayed with my grandfather and grandmother and went to Catholic school.Hite: So they have good family background there, don't you? Big, big group of children.
Bennett: You might call it so.
Hite: Okay. So you lived there for a while. Now when did you come to Taylorsville?
Bennett: I came to Taylorsville the year
3:00I graduated from St. Joe. I went to Fairfield eight years, then I went to St. Joe's preparatory school from '32 to '36. And I graduated from St. Joe in '36 and came to Taylorsville, went to work. The day I graduated (my?) school. Been here ever since, except four years I was in the navy.Hite: So you have a family business in Taylorsville, been here quite a long time.
Bennett: Since 1875.
Hite: Still run by the Bennetts, right?
Bennett: Yes, ma'am.
Hite: And your grandfather, I assume, started that?
Bennett: My grandfather started the business. Well, that's not exactly right.
His father started the business. My great grandfather started the business. I've been told his name was Ed Bennett. And Mr. Sam Simpson told me that he heard that he was raised in Fairfield, but I've never been able to find out where. And he died, my 4:00great-grandfather died, and then my grandfather (?) took over the business. And he died in 1918, the year I was born. And us kids have been trying to run it ever since. Six boys and seven girls. Now there are six boys here and one girl. The other girls are married and scattered all over the United States, and one is in France or Germany.Hite: And you're among the oldest in the family, right?
Bennett: (I'm?) the oldest.
Hite: Well, getting back to our topic again, Mr. Bennett, I'd like to see if you
can remember anything about Prohibition around about these parts. Do you recall, you were very, very young when it was enacted, I know. You couldn't remember that. But do you recall anything when you first heard that word, "Prohibition?"Bennett: Yes, ma'am. When I was going to Fairfield school, I'm ashamed to say,
there was 5:00a lot of bootleggers in Fairfield. I used to visit them once in a while, I'm ashamed to tell you. And I can remember one time that word got here in Taylorsville that there was a load of whiskey coming through here during Prohibition. And we had a covered bridge over Salt River here. And we had a judge by the name of (Thad Cheatham?), and they called him and told him this load of whiskey was coming through. I'm not sure whether it was government whiskey. I'm almost sure it was government whiskey, but it could have been moonshine. But anyhow, they left a load of whiskey in some kind of an old dilapidated truck, a big load of whiskey, get in the bridge, and then they stopped up both ends of the bridge. And stole, took that whiskey and put it in the courthouse. And locked it up for two or three days. And then my father told me that one night the word had got out that Thad Cheatham was going to leave the courthouse unlocked that night. And the next morning, the whiskey was all gone. 6:00Hite: My gosh. Oh, that's quite a tale. So there was a lot of moonshiners over in that area, and heading this way. This county's been dry almost always, hasn't it?Bennett: But it's an awful wet dry county.
Hite: That's right. Got close connections there, don't we?
Bennett: Yes, ma'am.
Hite: Well, did the Catholic people, you say mentioned going to the Catholic
schools. How were they affected by, what were their attitudes on Prohibition?Bennett: I'm ashamed to tell you that I can't remember expressing their (?)
attitudes. But as you know, most of the Catholics were made home brew. I can remember some Catholics made home brew and wine. And the Catholics all drank. The Baptists claimed 7:00that they didn't drink, but they hid out, the Baptists hid out and did their drinking. The Catholic drinkers didn't care who knew it. The Catholics drank out in the open. More so than the Baptists. The Baptists hid and did their drinking.Hite: I was going to say, the big Catholic families in Nelson County have owned
the distilleries for years and years.Bennett: That's right.
Hite: For generations.
Bennett: But I've always heard that they started out bootlegging.
Hite: Mm hmm. Now I understand there was a distillery in Taylorsville.
Bennett: Yes, ma'am. I didn't know it. I reckon we're talking about the same distillery.
Hite: Only recently did I find that out, too.
Bennett: I had a friend by the name of Weber Jewell. And he gave me a deed to
his great-grandfather's farm. And in that deed was five thousand, I can remember $5,775 or something like that worth 8:00of slave property. One big black man, five hundred dollars. One little yellow girl, fifty dollars. They were priced according to the work they could get out of them in the field. At the bottom of that deed that Weber Jewell showed me was some large copper kettles. And I asked him, I said, "Mr. Jewell, what are all these copper kettles on this deed for?" And he said, "Right up this holler from where my daddy lives now, there used to be a distillery." I said, "Well, I didn't know that." He said, "That's all I can tell you. There's a distillery up in that holler, and those copper kettles came from that distillery. And when we sold the farm, they sold those copper kettles." Is that the same distillery you had in mind?Hite: No, I suppose so, it went down where, below where Brashears Creek empties
into Salt River, right? Below that area? Or up the creek?Bennett: I don't believe, I think if what
9:00you're saying is so, there was two distilleries here. Because this one's out to (Elle?) Creek, up the holler, and it wasn't close to, it was fairly close to Brashears Creek, but it wasn't close to Salt River.Hite: That's true. Well, that sounds more likely.
Bennett: There could have been two here. Because I've always heard there was a
lot of drinking up on here.Hite: So a lot of moonshining happened over this way, then, huh?
Bennett: Well, I didn't hear, I never heard of as much moonshining in Spencer
County as I did in Nelson County. But I've been told that my grandfather Lily had a still on his farm. And Thad Cheatham told him that found out he had it, and told him that if he didn't get rid of it or do something about it, he was going to raid him. So they loaded that distillery 10:00in a wagon and put gates on the top of the wagon and made it look like they were hauling hogs or something, and took it through Bardstown over someplace in Nelson County and set it back up and started operating again.Hite: Oh my goodness! Well, he had a little forewarning. That's very nice for him.
Bennett: That's right.
Hite: Oh, goodness. Well, was this a pretty poor county? Was mostly dependent on
farming, wasn't it?Bennett: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yes. It was a poor county. This, you didn't ask
me this, but I'll tell you. I don't know whether you want it on your record or not. my great-grandfather had a brother here, and they couldn't make a living at the store we had in 1875. And my great-grandfather's brother left here and walked to Texas. And they didn't hear from him for ten years. Instead, I've heard my father say my grandfather said that 11:00he left here barefooted and broke. And he walked to Texas and swam creeks and rivers and fought Indians. And ten years later, he showed up in Whitesboro, Texas.Hite: My goodness.
Bennett: And now his great-granddaughter has come back here and married (Doug Moon?).
Hite: (?) Bennett: Yes. (?) to Bardstown, and I can remember the man's name (?)
man by the name of Smith. And they operated it over there for a while during Prohibition. Which was against the law.Hite: So it closed down over here during that Prohibition period?
Bennett: Well, the judge excused my grandfather. And he told him he was going to
raid him. So before he could get them raided, they moved it.Hite: Where did they set up in Nelson County?
Bennett: Over at, out at (Botlin?), back on the river, behind (Botlin?).
Hite: Yeah. Down on the borders area.
Bennett: That's right.
12:00That's right.Hite: I knew about that one, but I didn't know it came from this area.
Bennett: It came from my grandfather Lily's place. I'm ashamed to tell you.
Hite: Do you recall the priests or ministers in the area being outraged when all
this outlawing moonshining was happening?Bennett: When I can first remember, Mary, the priest in Samuels, this was a
mission church. And the priest in Samuels came over here every third Sunday and said Mass. And then the next Sunday he went to Mt. Washington. And since I was going to Fairfield School, I had to learn how to serve Mass. And my father had gone to a Catholic school someplace. And I never will forget, the priest came here, his name 13:00was Father Smith. Father Leo Smith was the first one I could remember. And he said it was the only place, Catholic church, he ever saw a father and son serving Mass.Hite: Shoot. So they pretty much tolerated it.
Bennett: But we had some priests here that, Father Smith was a good sport. We
had some priests here that would take a little nip themselves. And I can remember one priest that had to take insulin. He'd take a shot of insulin, then he'd take a shot of liquor.Hite: I've heard that, too. Oh, goodness. So your law enforcement here kind of
tolerated your grandfather. And he just picked up and moved to Nelson County, didn't he? Just kind of gave him a little warning.Bennett: Yes, ma'am.
Hite: Well, did that happen other areas, too?
14:00Bennett: I don't know, Mary. That's the only one that I really knew that is the truth.Hite: So the law enforcement, a lot of times they just kind of overlooked these things.
Bennett: That's right. And here's something that I'd forgotten about, Mary, that
might be interesting. There was a moonshiner from Bardstown used to come over here. And every first Monday all the farmers would bring their livestock and everything to town, and they'd have auctioneers. And they would sell their livestock in the public square. And there was an old time colored boy works for us. And he told me that one of the moonshiners from Bardstown would bring several gallons of moonshine over here, and put each gallon in a paper sack. And they'd give this colored boy 15:00the sign, and when they gave him the sign, he'd deliver this to the courthouse and put it in a different, people in the courthouse trash basket. He'd put a gallon in the judge's office, and a gallon in the sheriff's office, and a gallon in different people's office. And that moonshine came from Bardstown, he told me.Hite: Well I'd say they were looking the other way, weren't they.
Bennett: Yes, ma'am.
Hite: Well, did they have a lot of, I know they didn't during Prohibition. But
what about the bars in the area?Bennett: They didn't have any bars as such in Taylorsville. The only one that I
can remember, that's (Jewel?). He had what you might call a bar. And they'd raid him once in a while, and they claimed they couldn't find anything, because he'd have it in his tea kettle or something like that. And two men got in there and got to fighting over thirty cents over a drink. 16:00And one man's name was Ralph Taylor, and the other one was John (?) McGee. And I was hauling brick out of our old store when we were building a new store. And we left here with a load of brick, and when we came back, somebody told me we'd missed all the excitement because two men came out of that bar, one named Ralph Taylor and one John (?) McGee. And Ralph Taylor shot John McGee in front of the bar in Taylorsville and killed him in cold blood.Hite: My goodness. What was the outcome of that?
Bennett: Mr. Taylor went to the pen and stayed a few years. And got out, and I
don't think he came back to this territory. But Mr. McGee was killed instantly, they said in cold blood.Hite: Needless to say, the bar probably closed, too.
Bennett: I don't believe it did. The man who ran it's name was (Aaron Jewel?).
And he was hard to do anything with. 17:00He used to ride up and down Main Street shooting in the pool room. And the man who ran the pool room would ride up and down the street and shoot in his bar. And then they wouldn't get any closer to each other than that.Hite: Kept each other at bay, huh?
Bennett: Yeah. Then I don't know whether you want it on your tape or not, but
the man that ran the bar, I was riding the school bus from Bardstown up to (Copperson?) Street, and we came out the (Copperson?) Street store one day, and there was always lots of kids waiting to get on the school bus. And the car sitting on the right there in front of (Hall?) store at (Copperson?) Street, and nobody on the porch. And I recognized the car as belonging to the bartender in Taylorsville. His name was Aaron Jewel. So somebody went into the store and came back, and said John Dillinger and his gang had been here. And said they went in the store and said they wanted some bologna and cheese and crackers and cocoa 18:00and stuff. And the Hall boys told them just to help themselves, because they thought it was John Dillinger. And it turned out to be this Aaron Jewell. And he was just a prankster. But he was drunk that day. And he drove off without paying. And in a few days, why, our store was next door to our bar and he told me about it. Told me he was ashamed of himself, and said he was going back over there and pay off for the bologna and cheese and crackers when he sobered up. But that day he told them he was John Dillinger. And at that time, John Dillinger was on the loose.Hite: Must have caused quite a stir over there, didn't it.
Bennett: Yes, it did.
Hite: They had a lot of inter-county rivalry, didn't they?
Bennett: Yes, ma'am. (?) myself, bought some moonshine one time. And on Sunday
we were playing pool. And this relation of yours let the bottle slip 19:00out of his trousers and break on the concrete floor. And in a few minutes, the floor turned snow white. And I asked him, I said, "What in the world caused that?" He said, "You don't know?" And I said no. He said that moonshine was cooked with lye.Hite: Oh my gosh.
Bennett: And he said that's what turned the floor white. I said, "Well, what's
that lye do in that moonshine to our stomachs?" He said, "What do you think?"Hite: Was he intending to sell that or drink it himself?
Bennett: (?) relation of yours and myself, we already drinking it. And the man
who sold it, his name was (Clay Gritten?).Hite: I bet that changed your ideas very quick, didn't it?
Bennett: Yes, it did.
Hite: And over in Fairfield had quite a good time over there. Had a tavern.
Bennett: I used
20:00to know a man that worked in there called John Smith. And I didn't know he worked there until I went out to his store a few years ago and I started naming people in Fairfield and he said, "I used to work as a bartender in the tavern at Fairfield." And you know, there's another shooting in front of it. And some of my kin folks involved in that. That was (Hyde Clemens and Tom Simms?). And I don't know whether the tavern had anything to do with it or what, but they were settling up an estate. And the farm is the first farm below the Catholic cemetery at Fairfield. And they fell out over selling that estate. And Tom Simms shot Hyde Clemens at close range, with a shot gun so close that the, what do they call it in a shot gun shell? The paper, the wadding, he was so close that the wadding went in Hyde Clemens' intestines. So 21:00the law, they called the law. And Hyde Clemens had a pistol on the seat of his car. So they never did do anything about it, because they were laying for each other. Each one of them had a gun. So they, and Hyde Clemens married Lily Ash. And Lily Ash was raised by my grandfather and grandmother Lily. So they left and moved to Florida and never did have any children. And the last few years of their life, they moved back to Louisville. And both died and were buried. And I was a pallbearer for both of them over at the St. Rose, over at Springfield.Hite: You got a lot of good memories there, don't you?
Bennett: Some of them are good, I reckon. Some of them are not so good.
Hite: Oh, gosh. Well, we won't wear you out here. I know you're not feeling up
to par.Bennett: Don't bother me a bit.
Hite: But I couldn't pass this opportunity up.
22:00Bennett: I've been telling those tales for years, and they are the awful truth.Hite: Yeah, that's right. Well, do you know anything that happened like that
over in Bardstown area? Did it become pretty wild during Prohibition over there?Bennett: I was going to St. Joe, I went to St. Joe from '32 to '36. I didn't
hear, I was either too young or something, I never heard much about what was going on in Bardstown.Hite: You had your head in the books, didn't you?
Bennett: That's true.
Hite: During that time Prohibition ended, I thought maybe you'd have heard a few things.
Bennett: I didn't hear too much. I used to go out to (Balltown?) and try to sell
stuff. And they were always gambling and playing poker and drinking out in (Balltown?) when I went out there. But I never did know many of the details. I used to go to New Haven. 23:00And I never will forget I went to a place over there one time and I got to playing with a fellow name of (Squad?) Johnson. And after he, I won him over, I asked him one time, I said, "Do you know where I could get some moonshine?" I had a brother-in-law wanted some moonshine. And he just stooped down under the counter and raised up and set a gallon of moonshine on the counter.Hite: That's pretty handy, wasn't it?
Bennett: Yes, it was. And then later on, he opened up a joint between New Haven
and Bardstown and called it Helsinki. And he built him a little, built him a little log jail behind this place. And on Saturday nights, why, he would have a big party there. And I had a cool all refrigerator and a place on trial with a sign on the door, "For sale by (?)." And I can remember that anybody that got drunk, he would put them in that log jail and lock the door. And when the party was over that night, the dance was over, if anybody 24:00was up on their feet and would go home, he'd let them out. And if they wanted to fight or were wild, he'd call Bardstown, have them come and take them to Bardstown and put them in jail.Hite: Yeah. They're pretty tough on Bardstown people.
Bennett: They were always fighting, and they were brothers. They were John
Thomas and Ben (Worfall?).Hite: This at New Haven?
Bennett: Yes. And when they'd get drunk, one of them, I can't remember which
one, one of them's wife would leave him. and (Squat?) Johnson would call me and say, "Warren, Ben (Worfall?) or John Thomas (Worfall's?) wife left him and said if you bring him a new Perfection (?) stove, she'll come back to him." So I remember one time I took him a (Perfection coal oil ?) stove and his wife came back. And in a few months, Squat called me and said, "The (Worfalls?) are separated again." He said, "If you'd bring them a round tub Maytag washer, they'd go back together." So I remember three things. I took a (New ? coal oil?) stove, and a round tub Maytag, and a GE refrigerator. 25:00Hite: Oh, boy. It got pretty expensive there, didn't it?Bennett: And there were times he came home so drunk his wife left. And he'd have
to buy her a new appliance to get her to come home.Hite: Seems like she might have had a little hand in that, too.
Bennett: They lived between Nelsonville, they lived between New Haven and
Nelsonville, down towards (?).Hite: Mm hmm.
Bennett: Then I had another man that I better not call his name came over here
during Prohibition and called me. And he wanted to buy a 500 gallon propane gas tank. And he said he'd pay me whatever it was worth. And I told him we didn't sell gas tanks. He said, "Well, you could sell one, couldn't you?" And I said, "Well, yes. You give me a thousand dollars. And they cost five hundred dollars. I'd sell it to you for a thousand dollars." And he counted me out a thousand 26:00dollars in cash and said, "Now, I'm going to bring this gas tank over here about one night a week, and I want you to fill it with propane gas. And I'm going to have it in a truck over a tarpaulin. And I want you to fill it and keep your mouth shut." And I reckon this is the first time I've ever told it. And he said, "I'll pay you in cash." And I know he was going to cook the moonshine with that propane gas.Hite: Yes!
Bennett: Two or three years, he'd bring it over here at night and I'd fill it
for him. But I didn't know what he was doing with it.Hite: You just kept your mouth shut.
Bennett: That's right. And nothing ever changed hands but cash.
Hite: He went from one (hand accounting?) to the other hand.
Bennett: That's right.
Hite: Do you have anymore--
Bennett: So they cooked it with wood and they cooked it with coal and they
cooked it with most modern fuel, 27:00Bennett's (?) Hite: Oh, yeah. You all were just getting into business about then, I guess.Bennett: That's right.
Hite: That made it really efficient, didn't it?
Bennett: --Fairfield. And everybody said I looked like knot on a log. And the
horse was fast. And all the oldtimers told me, they said, "Son, that horse is going to kill you." And that doesn't have anything to do with Prohibition. But I rode the horse five miles every day to school and back when I was in first grade.Hite: Now that's down there on Lily Pike, isn't it?
Bennett: Yes, ma'am. And a lot of boys rode (?) Jack (Frisco?) and Bob Greenwell
and Joe Washington and Barry (Royston?) and William Miller Whiteside. And maybe (?) I left out 28:00a name. But nothing to do with Prohibition. Shirley Whitesides had a little store there and his son would go in there and swipe a sack of Bull Durham and we'd go up on the hill and (?) and roll cigarettes. And we'd smoke them, and we thought we were big shots. Mary, you want a glass of iced tea or something?Hite: Well, is there anything else you want to say to conclude it? Or you just--
Bennett: I don't believe so.
Hite: I think you've got a lot of good stories there.
Bennett: Thank you for thinking enough of me to come and--
Hite: Well, we appreciate you taking the time when you're not feeling so well.
Bennett: I've got a blood clot, or did have a blood clot in my leg, but it
doesn't bother me. It doesn't hurt.Hite: You've just got to be careful with it, right? Well, thank you.
Bennett: I don't have to be careful with my mouth. I have to be careful with my leg.
Hite: Well, we'll check that out later. Well, thank you again, Mr. Bennett. [End Interview.]
29:0020 ©Kentucky Oral History Commission Kentucky Historical Society 30:00