Oral History Interview with LaVerne Corbett

[Begin Interview] Hite: The following is an interview with Laverne Corbett by Mary Hite by the Kentucky Oral History Commission. We're studying Prohibition in Nelson County: Its Causes and Effects. The interview was conducted in Bardstown, Nelson County, Kentucky, at 105 East View on May the twenty-ninth, 1989. Laverne, I understand that some of your ancestors were distillers. Could you tell us a little bit about them? And fill us in on your own background? Go ahead, Laverne.

Corbett: Well, I'll try to give you the best I can. I'm sure it won't be as good as the rest of your tapes. I was born in Jefferson County in 1921. My parents, grandparents, great grandparents were all born in, on both sides, 1:00were born in Nelson County. In fact, my ancestors came to Nelson County in 1780. And I was, and they had been connected with the alcoholic beverage from the beginning, before Kentucky was a state. I moved back to Nelson County shortly after, after I was born, I moved back here shortly after. To bring you up on some of the ancestors, we were the earliest, my ancestors were the earliest, one of the earliest, that arrived in Kentucky. 2:00There are records showing that they arrived here March the twentieth, 1780. Before Kentucky was a state, as I mentioned. Old Conrad Kurtz had a cabin in the woods. And later, when lots were marked off, people had to build a one-room log cabin, I think it was 1818, by size, to hold a lot. Well, he decided to build two 1818 cabins, foot cabins, on the line, side by side. One lot, one cabin on one lot, and one on the other. After old Conrad died, the builder, his son, my great great great grandfather, Jacob Kurtz, inherited the double cabin. It was on lots 94 and 95, I think. There was a law suit which lasted for years. 3:00But in the end, Jacob did win. And received the double cabin. The jury ruled that old Conrad's intention was to acquire two lots by the double cabin. Old Conrad came here from York, Pennsylvania. He had three sons and one daughter. His first son, Martin Kurtz, died in 1795. His will is here in Nelson County. From the looks of things, they were in the whiskey business from the start, as his possessions are listed as three stills. The newest one is on the plantation where his wife, Ann Kurtz, was living. I guess the other two boys got the other two stills, because they are listed as (owners?) of stills in their will. 4:00So to go back to Martin Kurtz, Martin, Martin Kurtz, yes, he had two of his daughters that married into the Samuels family, which were owners of distilleries all along. They owned the T.W. Samuels Distillery, and some of the Samuels family still have Maker's Mark distillery. Those were the Samuels of the Martin Kurtz' two, descendents of Martin Kurtz' two daughters. So this time the (dates?) were connected with her whiskey connected with her whiskey business since 5:00they left Germany, even. Before they went to Pennsylvania and then on into Nelson County. My grandfather owned a, was a distiller at the Murphy (Barber?) for years. John Wesley Kurtz. The 1896 record that historical society had reprinted, telling about most of the things in Nelson County, has a write-up about him. He was born in 1850, and died in 1940. My father spent a lot of time during Prohibition, buying, selling, and etcetera, with whiskey. My first recollection with it was when I was about three years old, 6:00maybe three and a half, the revenue agent came to our house and Mother put us four girls on a couch that sat in front of a closet door which was concealed by the couch. The agents searched the house, and did not find anyone. As one agent left, he took Dad's .38 pistol. My parents called before the agents arrived back at their office, telling about the theft. And the pistol was returned. They finally did, they finally did catch him and fine him for selling whiskey. The fine was in June of 1923. I don't know the story about that. I don't know when they found him, what still he was 7:00working at at the time. I think they caught him with whiskey. I've heard many stories and seen a lot. He used to deliver whiskey that was drained from barrels at Tom Moore distillery, and take it to Louisville. I do not know who drained the whiskey, or who it was sold to. This went on for quite a long time. Probably until the whiskey ran out. The next year, we had moved to Jefferson County, back to Jefferson County, about a mile from where we did live. And 8:00the agents returned. They smelled whiskey and they did not have a search warrant. So they went back to get a search warrant. By the time they got back, the whiskey had been, they had a field that they were planting and dragging, it had been plowed and they were dragging it. So they took two barrels at a time, covered it with a burlap sack, and went to the end of the field, which there was an old quarry there, rock quarry. They hid the barrels of whiskey there, and when the revenue agents returned, why all of the whiskey had been hauled over to the quarry. And again, they found nothing 9:00except some whiskey that we kiddos had spilled, and it was draining down the gutter. My father also tells a story about having a still in Wickland. He ran it there, he ran it there during Prohibition. My uncle was working there when some of the agents came to make a raid. So he was tipped off, and he ran up and got on the roof until they left. I don't think anyone was caught there. Maybe they were. I believe they were. I believe there were two people caught there, but I don't recall who they were. This might have been after they ran out of whiskey that he went back to the still, 10:00after he ran out of whiskey from (Barton?), hauling it from there.

My father had a mother, this wasn't a story, I saw this. He had a house that someone lived in, was working for him in one of the stills in that house. In the basement of that house. And it was located about a half a mile from our house. And the house caught on fire and burned to the ground. So after we heard, we could see the smoke from our house. And we all begged Mother to let us go down there. Well after she found out that there was no one there, she let us go.

We saw all the barrels filled with mash. And at that time, 11:00we were about six, seven, eight and nine years old. This is another story that we were living here in Nelson County out on the farm. And one Sunday afternoon, we had gone horseback riding. We were really too little to be on horses, but we were. And we rode up in the woods, and continued on until we were on some other people's property, which I do not know the owner. And we came up on this still that was being staked out. We did not know that it was being staked out, or we didn't know it was there. There was a number of old hogs laying around drunk. We would kick them, and they would just grunt. 12:00There was a lot of barrels of mash. Whiskey was there. Corn, some sugar, and finally, three or four men appeared out of nowhere. And they were very angry with us, because they said we messed up their raid. Now that I'm going to, that was on my father's side. Now my mother's side, my great grandfather, Henry Thomas Craven, on the other side of my family, he lived to be past ninety and worked at the distillery most of his time. All of his work was legal. He was a distiller at Greenbriar. He raised thirteen children while he lived there in the house on the distillery property. My grandmother was born there, and then 13:00she married. And my mother, also, was born there.

And I think most of her children were born there. Now Grandpa Craven, Henry Thomas Craven, said he used to go to different distilleries. He would take a train and ride a long time and he would take a gallon of sour mash with him. And he would stay at these distilleries, overseeing the distillers, until the (reduction?) was brought up. He went to (Orns?) Brothers Distillery, which his son was, Joe Craven, was the distiller there until he retired. Grandpa Craven was considered the best distiller in Kentucky. One of his grandsons, 14:00Robert (Briny?) was a distiller at Beam's distillery, called Churchill Distillery earlier. He worked there with Booker Knowles until Robert's death. Or until he retired. He had also worked at other distilleries during the Prohibition and after, with his grandfather, Henry Thomas Craven. I've heard many stories about during, about Prohibition, during and after. It seems many of my uncles and great uncles worked in the distillery with Grandpa Craven. And then later on continued their work after Grandpa died. He died in 1945. 15:00My great uncle Jim Craven was the youngest son of Henry Thomas.

He used to tell us about when he was nine, ten, eleven and twelve years old that he would go over to the distillery there at Greenbriar and drink beer out of what's made before whiskey is taken out of it. And he never could hold his drink. I don't know whether that had anything to do with it. But he was never able to hold a job. He was always lived with part of the family. During, he stayed with my parents a great deal of the time. But for the last years, he spent the last fifteen years with me before I got him a home with the Little Sisters of the Poor. He died in Detroit, at their home, after they left Louisville. 16:00I'm sure they took care of his soul as well as his body. And Sister used to tell me about him going to Mass every day while he was there. He was very satisfied there. It might have been because Sister gave him two or three bottles of beer each day. [End Side A. End Session.]