Oral History Interview with Mary Lawson

MARIAN COLETTE: You said you remember when your mother was working in the garden?

Mary Lawson: When she was working or wanted to do something, she would pick the foot of the bed up and set it on our dress tail and give us whatever she wanted us to play with. We would sit right there, we couldn’t budge. She would keep us right there so we couldn’t get

away, then my daddy made a playpen out of boards and fishing canes, smoothed them down. She would take a quilt and put it all the way around it. When she was working in the garden, she would set us in that playpen, and we couldn't get out of that playpen. She would make balls out of yarn thread or an old sock and stuff it and that’s how she made her dolls out of them [those] old work socks. You could make monkeys, dolls, dogs, bears, things out of them. If we had a diaper rash, she would get clay out of the chimney and she would beat it real[ly] fine. She would put it in a cheese cloth and dust it all over us and that would take care of our diaper rash.

MARIAN COLETTE: I heard about the clay in the chimney and the mud dobbers (??) nest.

Mary Lawson: You could get clay out of these old clay chimneys like these old log cabin houses. The sun would bake it and you would just sift that right on there. She had a medicine call pennyroyal. We used that for colds. If you[‘ve] got pneumonia, it's the best medicine for it.

MARIAN COLETTE: It’s like a mint, isn't it?

Mary Lawson: Yeah. It grows up like a little round bush like a durnan bush. Have you ever seen one?

MARIAN COLETTE: Well, I can’t say I can go out there and find some, I think I’ve seen it.

Mary Lawson: Dinity (??). It’s could [good] for colds.

MARIAN COLETTE: So, she didn't take you much to the doctor [very much]?

Mary Lawson: No. I bit my tongue about one gristle and my dad just took the scissors and cut that off and throwed [threw it] right under the floor and I know a dog, or something got my tongue.

MARIAN COLETTE: You mean you bit the tip off?

Mary Lawson: Yeah. They never took me to the doctor; they gave me some alum to put in my mouth.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did it burn?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, it tingles a bit.

MARIAN COLETTE: Alum was something they used in the coal mines?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, it’s stuff that they used that looks like glass. It looked just like a little piece of glass.

MARIAN COLETTE: It healed it up?

Mary Lawson: Yeah. They never took me to the doctor.

MARIAN COLETTE: Where were [you] born?

Mary Lawson: In Whitley County.

MARIAN COLETTE: Around this area?

Mary Lawson: Down toward Julip in what they call Maiden Ben.

MARIAN COLETTE: How many kids [are] in your family?

Mary Lawson: Nine.

MARIAN COLETTE: What did you dad do for a living?

Mary Lawson: He was a soldier and he farmed.

MARIAN COLETTE: Most [of] everybody did a little farming?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: Like, what kind[s] of things did you have?

Mary Lawson: We had onions, sweet potatoes, peanuts, we growed [grew] our own popcorn, melons, beans. Anything that you could grow on a farm, we growed [grew] it.

MARIAN COLETTE: And put it up?

Mary Lawson: Ya. Before people learned how to can. Everybody would dry pumpkin and have you [you had] a broom stick and you would just thread pumpkin right up and hang it behind the stove and it would dry there.

MARIAN COLETTE: How would she keep the bugs out of it?

Mary Lawson: You would put it in jars. You would put it in the oven first, bake it as hard as you could get it. That’s the way we done [did] dried beans.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did your mom have all of you’s [all of you] at home?

Mary Lawson: Yea, every one of us.

MARIAN COLETTE: Was there a doctor?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, a midwife mostly.

MARIAN COLETTE: Now when you when you had your kids?

Mary Lawson: I had mine in the hospital.

MARIAN COLETTE: When were yours born?

Mary Lawson: 1960, 1963.

MARIAN COLETTE: Back then in the 60's when you got pregnant, did you go right to

the doctor?

Mary Lawson: Yeah. People didn’t go like they do now. He just mostly gave you a blood test.

MARIAN COLETTE: That was it?

Mary Lawson: You didn't go back unless you were sick. I had good luck with carring [carrying] mine. After having them, they would die, because I had that RH [factor] blood.

MARIAN COLETTE: How many times were you pregnant?

Mary Lawson: About four.

MARIAN COLETTE: And how many do you have?

Mary Lawson: One. See, I had a set of twins, they died. Then I had Ricky, then he died, I had Daryll, and he died. They told me the first and the fourth would live, but it was just the first one that did.

MARIAN COLETTE: Larry was the first one?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: Back in the 60's, they didn't have anything for RH blood?

Mary Lawson: They told me they could change Ricky's blood, but they didn't. See, I had to switch doctors. The doctor I was going to got [get got] called to the Army and I got this doctor and I think he was on dope. We were paying $1900 to have Ricky's blood changed and most of the maternity too. We growed [grew] a tobacco crop to pay that. We paid all that in and he said that Ricky didn't need a blood transfusion, “he don’t [doesn’t] need his blood changed.”

MARIAN COLETTE: How long did he live?

Mary Lawson: Nine years. They said that was average life[span] for [some]one like that.

MARIAN COLETTE: Now-a-days you get a shot. They don't do any changing of blood.

If you have RH negative [blood], they can give the women a shot while she is pregnant and then again right after the baby is born so her blood doesn’t build up immunity to the baby’s blood.

MARIAN COLETTE: Your other little ones died at birth?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: That must of [have] been hard, Mary?

Mary Lawson: It was.

MARIAN COLETTE: So, you had your kids in the hospital?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: When you remember when you was [were] little, your mother made all your toys?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: Was [Were] there any little songs or games she played that you remember and that you did with your kids?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, I don’t know if I can remember them or not. There was one about where you going little bird. [sings]: Where are you going little bird, little bird, where are you going little bird. I'm a going to the woods, I’m a going to the woods, I’m a going to the woods, sweet child. What’s in the woods little bird, little bird, what’s in the woods little bird,

there’s tree[s] in the woods, there’s tree[s] in the woods, sweet child. What’s in the tree little bird, little bird, what’s in the tree, little bird? there’s a nest in the tree, there’s a nest in the tree, a nest in the tree sweet child. What’s in the nest little bird, little bird, what [’s] in

the nest, little bird? There’s five little eggs, there’s five little eggs, five little eggs, sweet child. What’s in the eggs little bird? Little bird, what’s in the eggs, little bird? Five little birds, five little birds, five little birds, sweet child. What did they sing little bird, little bird, what did they sing little bird? They sang praise the Lord, they sang praise the Lord, they sang praise the Lord, sweet child.

Mary Lawson:

[Sings]:

Doodle bug, doodle bug, come out of your hole, doodle bug, doddle bug, bless your soul, doodle bug, doodle come out of your hole.

MARIAN COLETTE: So, kids pretty well could entertain themselves?

Mary Lawson: Oh, yeah. We use[d] to take a shoe box back when I was a little girls [girl] and we didn’t have no [any] baby beds. We[‘d] punch a hole in it and tie a string and then we would lay them [those] old rag dolls in them and we would just pull them all over the place, we would give them [those] dolls a ride. Then if we took a notion to play like we were riding a mule, Daddy would get us an old broom and we would throw that right between our legs and get us a switch and hit that broom and we was [were] gone just like we was [were] riding a real mule.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did your mom or dad ever read to you when you was [were] little?

Mary Lawson: No, nerry [neither] one of them could read. My older sisters did. They would teach us what they heard.

MARIAN COLETTE: How did your mom and dad meet?

Mary Lawson: I don't know.

MARIAN COLETTE: Some ladies were talking about [how] courting was real[ly] well supervised, if you met anybody, it was usually at church, that’s where they met at.

Mary Lawson: They might of [have] met at Watts Creek Church, Daddy lived up here and

Mommy lived at Three Point, so I[‘d] say they might of [have] met at a church service. Daddy went into the Army, and he left her. They were going together, and she waited till he pulled his time, and when he got back, they got married. She said, "around Christmas they would put sweet potatoes around the back wall in the chimney, put ashes up them.” A lot of them would use spit with that, but not them, they wouldn’t spit in their house. They had them--a spittoon and she said, "when they would come back from church, they would eat them.”

MARIAN COLETTE: I was talking to them [those] older ladies about what they did for fun back then you know, was their life just a big old drag with all [of] them [those] kids, they didn't have no [a] birth control pill?

Mary Lawson: No, they didn't have nothing [anything] like that.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did it seem like life for your mother was awful[ly] hard?

Mary Lawson: Yes, but she was happy. We lived by a big old thing called Cain Break. It's a big pool of water and it’s real[ly] deep. Back then, they didn’t have washing machine[s]. So, when it come [came time] to wash our winter blankets, she would take us to the creek, and she would have three or four wash tubs and she would wash our feet as clean as she could get them. Then, she would put us in then [the] tubs and we would stomp them clean.

MARIAN COLETTE: How did she ring them?

Mary Lawson: It would be about three of us one on each end and one in the

middle one would ring one way, one the other and one the other, it would just [be] pretty and clean.

MARIAN COLETTE: What did she do for fun?

Mary Lawson: Oh we played tag, ball.

MARIAN COLETTE: For your mom, was it just a workday all day long?

Mary Lawson: No, it didn’t seem as hard for--as it is now. There would just be certain days that she would wash, certain days for the garden, certain days for the store.

MARIAN COLETTE: They hardly went any place?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, the women would visit more often then [than] they do now. One day,

they would come to our house and then the next day, they would go somewhere else.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did they just sit and talk?

Mary Lawson: Well, they would break up beans, piece quilts, embroidery, some would be using snuff, some tobacco. They would be out in the yard, and they would be spitting ever [every] which way she would make us spread the sand over that and then she would make us sweep.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did you have a board floor?

Mary Lawson: No, we didn't spit in the house, this was on the outside, On the

Inside, they had these old fashion[ed] spittoon[s] and mother would take care

of that, cause she was afraid we would catch germs. She would pour a little kerosene in that, and she would take it, wash it, and clean it. You couldn’t buy Purex or Pine sol, back then, the only thing there was to kill germs was lye. You had to be careful of how much you used if you didn’t, it would eat your hands up.

MARIAN COLETTE: Back when you was [were] growing up, can you remember if there was [were] any major sicknesses?

Mary Lawson: Polio, typhoid fever.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did they give kids shots?

Mary Lawson: Yeah, use[d] to [be], the county nurse would come to everybody[‘s] house, her name was Ms. Schneider. She would go to everybody’s to house to vaccinate everybody, they didn't take them to the health department like they do now.

MARIAN COLETTE: Was there a health department back then?

Mary Lawson: Yeah. I don’t think it was set up like it was [is] now. My little nephew died with diphtheria, and they wouldn’t let us in the house to see him at all. They pulled his casket up to the window to let us see him cause we was little.

MARIAN COLETTE: A lot of women [were] talking about whooping cough back then and that there was no cure for it and just hope that it would leave them?

Mary Lawson: If the leaves start falling, and you take whooping cough, usually it will kill you, you know. If it was in the fall. It would swell their glands together, Judy almost died she took pneumonia with it. They took turpentine, coil oil, snuff and made a medicine with it, the[y] rubbed her neck with it and her chest.

MARIAN COLETTE: Did your mom ever use pole cat grease?

Mary Lawson: Oh Yeah, Mullen. Then, they took some cuckle bures (??) and boils boil] the juice and then you would strain it and she would give it to herself and it would clear her cough right up.

MARIAN COLETTE: How did people learn how to do these things?

Mary Lawson: They just knowed [knew] it, I reconed [reckon] and just passed it on.

MARIAN COLETTE: If somebody got sick, they would just ask around the neighborhood what to do for this and that?

Mary Lawson: Yeah.

MARIAN COLETTE: I wonder when all that stopped?

Mary Lawson: I guess when all the doctors came, all these medical cards come [came] out and that help.

MARIAN COLETTE: If you could go back to have anything like it was, what would it be?

Mary Lawson: I think it would be better than it is today.

MARIAN COLETTE: It seems like people were closer.

Mary Lawson: Back then, you never heard of nobody [anybody] dying with cancer, because, they didn’t eat this can[ned] food, they didn’t need--that we didn’t have pop. The way we would make our pop, we would take a little vinegar, a little water, a little bit of soda and shake it and have us the best soda there ever was. It was just like drinking a coke today or a

Pepsi. We made our own cracker jacks. We would pop the corn and get you[rself] a little bit of molasses and get it hot and just roll you up a big ball--in it and you had you some cracker jacks. We would make peanut brittle candy; it would taste just like it came from out of the store. We raised our own peanuts.

MARIAN COLETTE: Was it real[ly] bad down here?

Mary Lawson: Oh yeah, see, you had to have a coupon book you had to have a

coupon to buy your shoes, Kerosene, sugar, coffee just about everything,

MARIAN COLETTE: And they only give so many coupons for a family?

Mary Lawson: For a month just like they do [food] stamps now. You would have to

pay for it, but you couldn’t buy it unless you had that stamp. See we didn’t have no [an] automobile, so we would trade our gas tickets for something they had that we could use. We would trade our gas tickets for like lard or something, but you couldn't let that out that you did that, if you did, it was illegal, so it was really hard back then today, stuff is so much higher.

MARIAN COLETTE: Was there real starvation?

Mary Lawson: No if they worked, they had and if they didn’t work, they didn't have. Just like it is today there~ people that wouldn't work for nothing [anything].

MARIAN COLETTE: There are still some people today that plant an [a] garden and use the

food, but you see more and more young girls that don’t really know how when you’re not dependent on it and there’s so much stuff in the store it’s easier to buy it.

Mary Lawson: They way we were raised to do it, if we didn't have the money to

go to the store to get it, we had it and that’s the way we do today.