Oral History Interview Amelia Ann Debusman & Melanie Debusman

Interviewer: I am interviewing Amelia Davisman, Melianie Davisman and A.A. Davisman. Our topic is Lou Tate and the Little Loomhouse. As we begin, Amelia, Melanie and AA, tell us each a little bit about yourselves.

Melanie: I am a micro computer facility coordinator at Coopers and Brown, I am planning on getting married in August. I graduated from college about 2 years ago- I am a junior at Bellerman College, studying administration and economics. I work at Main Library and at the Library at U of L.

I am the branch head for the Louisville Free Public Library and I am Amelia’s Mother. What other information do you want?

Teka: Tell me when you all first heard about Lou Tate.

Melanie: Well, I cam to Louisville and I wanted to weave again cause I had woven as a child. And so, I had heard of her in the early sixties. And the kids went out there, I think they were pre-schoolers, they might have been in school, but, I think they were pre-schoolers.

Teka: What are y’alls memories of the Loomhouse? The cabins?

OK, the only thing I can remember as a very little child is the long, long walk up the gravel road to the cabin- there were 3 cabins. The lower one we never went in. I think it was her house. The middle one we sometimes went in, but it was more storage, as I can remember. It just was not used that much. And the Top House was used the most. It was where all the looms were and the yarns to weave with. And back behind the cabins was a big wooded area. We would go back and climb around. I can remember it all seemed to be a different world because it seemed to be on top of a mountain, so, you went up and felt like you were getting out of the city and then you had to climb up, like she was saying to get to the houses and it was all older, not all modern, like the houses other places. There was no indoor plumbing. You had to go to the outhouse. It’s probably the only time I’ve ever seen an outhouse. We always made sure we went to the bathroom before we went. It was an interesting experience. It was different kind of atmosphere than what you would find anywhere else.

Teka: Did y’all go for an open house or kind of lessons?

The first time we went, it was for open house and after that it just seemed like we were there and I don’t really remember why we were there. It seemed like we were always going out there.

Teka: Were there children out there: Yeah, I think so; there were always some kids around. The Matches and Davis’s kids were out there, but not every time we went, no sometimes we were the only ones.

Teka: Did you take lessons directly from Lou Tate?

Yeah

Yeah

Yes

I can remember she really could put colors together well. She had a box and um, there used to be a think in it w/shuttles of yarn and you got to go pick out the ones you wanted to use.

I remember when my cousin got married, I wove a what do you call it, hand towel? Wove all the solid part and when I got down to the end, Lou Tate finished it and wove in my cousin’s name or something.

Teka: Had you ever woven before?

No, not until we went out there. I didn’t get looms from my mother until a lot after that.

Teka: What was your impression after weaving on a little loom itself?

It was neat.

It didn’t seem so little when we were doing it.

Once we got the older and mom had the big looms, it seemed little but it always seemed like it was enough to handle as a small kid.

I remember the tables were real heavy that they sat on.

I remember you know, being around it so much. I was never that awe struck, like when we demonstrated at the fair and people were like I can’t believe you are doing that. It came natural.

Teka: So it never occurred to you to be intimidated?

No

No

They always wove presents for people. Potholders and that yardstick holder you wove for your grandmother, you’ve got that now. You still got that little vest you wove, a scarf, the pillow.

That green and blue scarf w/the tassels you wove that for grandmother too.

That one pillow is till sitting on her couch.

Teka: Because your mother knew how to weave, did that make you fell like you would be able to weave?

No, but I learned how to spin before she did, at the sit down box wheel. I could spin on that before she could. The walking wheel was little bit harder for me cause I was small, but the flax wheel, that’s what I was doing in the videotape.

Teka: Was this at on of the open houses?

We were at the spinning be in Bullet County. We all started off at the same time and mom was a lot faster than us. And that same Sunday we went to the fair to demonstrate the looms and I just could not do the flax wheel. It was like patting your head and rubbing your belly. I was just not that well coordinated. I could do the straight wheel but I just couldn’t get the hang of the flax wheel and she’d gone off to listen to the Bluegrass or something and people would show up and ask us to show them how to do it and I had to say, “I can’t” And when she came back, she sat right down at the wheel and faster and faster she’d go. Mom could do it too.

Teka: With your experience in weaving, what do you think the value of it was?

At the time I don’t think we realized all the things it was giving us but later on in life I know, especially when I was in school and they’d do teaching and history, it gave me amazement cause you could do something those people could do and that act of what you were doing and like the outhouse, it really related to that period in history. Me, some personal values it gave me, it made you feel special to know some things different and it gave me a lot of self confidence that I was a special little kid and I could do something special that no other little kids were doing.

Yeah, it was always a good project. People were always asking “come spin for us”- at the fair, being so small and they say, “oh, look what those kids are doing”. That and being on TV too, I remember one time we were at Joe Crescent Park and met a reporter and they had us on after the weather. It was neat. The reporter said it was something really different that not many other people knew how to do.

The education TV people came out once to school and shot you in the classroom.

I was in second grade and it was a half hour presentation on spinning and weaving. And I was doing the spinning. They showed it for several years in the school system. They showed it when I was in second grade, even after I was in Junior High, people would come in and say, I saw you.

We demonstrated several things.

Two years ago, what was it last summer, we were in the sheep to shawl contest at the fair.

Yeah, it was 2 years ago. We hadn’t done it for awhile and we got out of school and we were working on it and stuff. We kinda made a team and we came in third out of five groups.

It was a good time and another thing was I around mostly adults, there were some kids but mostly adults and I think that helped me relate better to adults because I could talk to them.

Teka: Tell me about the film, where it took place?

Well, it was mainly around the upper house, Tophouse. It was in front of Tophouse and the patio area that’s where I remember my area was, down as you were looking at the house. I remember my thread breaking and you had to pretend like it was working but I just remember a lot of people and the cameras, it took a long time to get all the footage for it.

Teka: How did you feel when you found out this was taking place?

I can remember feeling excited, essentially, we were out there any way, demonstrating, because it’s not something you see all the time and so the people who were watching and I was on it and they were like, “wow” something different. Um, I was very proud to show people you know, “look, I’m on TV”

It was exciting you know there was a certain amount of pride showing it to other people.

We used to go to classrooms with my mother to teach other kids about it. It was fun to be able to share that w/other people...

It was neat for a kid to teach an adult something.

We had one time at church and we’d be working but mother was in charge and people would be like, “Wow”. It was fun.

Teka: Now looking back, try to tell me what Lou Tate was like when you first met her.

I met her at the cabins and her teaching methods, later on, they told us when we were adults there were problems but I only remember her being tough and fair. She was always a little strange but to me she seemed like a genius. It was always certain things though that you just didn’t do, like go in the bottom cabin, we never did that. She was always helpful to me and I can’t really remember too well but I really admired her. I liked it when I made things that were good enough by her standards that she could show other people.

Teka: Did she ever discuss the history of whatever you all doing? Were there special methods she taught?

I think sometimes we would talk about patterns that were particular to times or things and learn about the history of the patterns or where they came from.

I remember not much history being incorporated into it when I was little.

I think basically she would say things like, “this is the way pioneers would do it” but she never gave us a sit down talk on history. More of the history I got was from the other adults around and later understood more and after a while, we just never went out there anymore.

Teka: You learned how to weave; you learned how to spin, what other things did you learn?

We learned how to dye.

It was fun. It was a dark mess and you’d dip your t-shirt into it and out would come- you could put marbles or rocks and rubber bands in it and make designs. It was just kind of fun.

Teka: Did you teach about how the dye process worked?

When we were little not so much but as we got older, we’d go to other people’s farms or go traipsing off in the woods and collect stuff like goldenrod or something and start from the weed or nut shell or whatever sometimes if we were going somewhere with mom, she’d say stop, pull over and we’d get out and collect up whatever plant she had pointed out for dying.

They’d be so embarrassed when I did that too.

When the tornado came thru, some trees were knocked own in the seminary and we went over there and collected wood chips and I had made a science project out of it.

Teka: Tell me about some of the other adults you met thru the Little Loomhouse.

One was Sarah Bailey- she’d from Eastern Kentucky. She’s the one that taught on the flax wheel. He was real good natured and spirited. She used to do the spinning for our weaving pattern.

Teka: Tell about going to visit Sarah.

She invited us up to her house. She was a very warm person. They were having some kind of spinning wheel thing and we all stayed at her house and she cooked us these real big meals and it was way out in the country. There were real animals out in the yard. We tried to ride her donkey – there were chickens in the back.

She told us she knitted her own socks out of wool she spun. We just did it for fun where as it was a part of her life. She really used it.

She taught people a lot of different crafts. I wanted to live w/her. She was really warm and jolly.

We did other thins too, working in the yard, pulling weeks, raking leaves. I was a little kid and I was supposed to do it. There was a road up above Tophouse. We could climb up to there were a lot of rocks. I remember building a little rock wall up there. I think it all got cleared out for new construction. Maybe that is where I think the Tenny’s house was?

Teka: Why did you stop going out there?

Well, that’s complicated, Lou was complicated. There were things that were hard to understand about her but the kids didn’t know about that. She had a way of managing things. She wanted them done her way. You’d go out there for one thing and you’d come back having done something else- she had something else in mind for you to do. It took all your patience to deal w/her. She’d get mad if you tried to learn anything else from any other source. She never recommended any outside books, only wanted you to use her looms. It came to a head and I didn’t need the hassle. Something about Sarah Bailey and spinning w/her and tried to acquire things and how things were organized and make suggestions about a different way of handling things, so she backed off and I stopped going and have not been since. It seemed like she thought any of my opinions were worthwhile. I felt like I had a lot more capacity to do things and she didn’t want me to learn new things or do them differently. I got busy teaching and doing other stuff. Originally I started going cause growing up in the 30’s we had a loom in the home and I was interested in that and we made rag rugs. I thought it was huge. I couldn’t reach from one side to the other and I was the one cutting rag strips. It was a big deal when momma took it down and then it was in the barn and my sister bought another loom for herself. When I wasn’t the loom, Daddy said there was another loom out there so when I tried to get it Momma said it belonged to Home Instruction Club. You’ll have to call them to find out. So I tried to call but got no answer. So Daddy said just take it and if they give you any grief, I’ll charge them storage fee for the last 20 years. I had both looms here at the house. Now the loom I have from Lou Tate, Daddy bought for me and Lou Tate wouldn’t sell it to me. I asked her and she’d have excuse after excuse but hen when Daddy asked, she sold it to him right then and there.

Teka: Was there some kind of limited supply of them?

Mr. Heimerdinger. She wouldn’t tell who made them for a long time but then I found out it was Mr. Heimerdinger. But you know maybe he didn’t have time to make them and she had a whole bunch stored out there. I got a four harness and that was a big step up. If Daddy hadn’t asked, I’m sure he would have been for Christmas or something.

Teka: You remember the Highview Weavers? Tell me about the beginning of that.

When? It must have been at least 25 years. We had a 25 year anniversary several years ago. I could look it up but I don’t know. Um, they left w/difficulties at the Loomhouse. In fact, she was in just about every group in the beginning but eventually they parted company. She always used to talk about the Kentucky Weavers. I always wondered it seemed like the elite group, I wondered how you got in it, never did find out too much until I joined the Hobby Weavers. They, uh, mostly the people who were in it went up there in the 40s w/her. There is some still active but they went out there in the 40s w/her.

Teka: Why don’t you tell me about the spinning wheel?

Well, I always spun- mostly on the flax wheel, sometimes on the box wheel, sometimes w/the walking wheel. She’d tell the story of walking 4 or 5 miles a day walking on a walking wheel. I bought an Ashford kit and Paul and I stained it and put it together. Um, it’s easier to spin on a new wheel all the parts work. When you get on an antique wheel, it could be warped or something. This past year, I got a wheel from my great grand mother, a waling wheel and it works beautifully. I put a new band on it and it spins. I’ve got a few that are broken so I have to repair those. I do a demonstration about Sleeping Beauty, so kids know what it was she pricked her finger on. That’s something I tell kids, now you’ve heard of Rumplestilskin, but I can’t turn straw into gold but I can spin wool into yarn. Kids are always fascinated w/that. The parents stand back and say I remember my grandmother doing that or I’ve never seen anything like that before but yeah, we had some good times out there. We have some pictures here of the girls when they were little, one of these is Sally Moss out in front of Wisteria Cabin. Looks like AA spinning on a flax wheel w/her. She really was spinning wool. The flax was just there for decoration.

There were so many jonquils out there. It’s really a beautiful place in the springtime. I can’t understand why the neighbors got so upset over the way the yard looked. Just cause it wasn’t all green grass. Some of these pictures were taken by Lee Ebner, took a good many pictures on several occasions.