Oral History Interview Dorothy Heimerdinger & Roy Heimerdinger

Teka: Today is March 27, 1985. My name is Teka Ward.

Teka: I am interviewing Dorothy and Roy Heimerdinger. We are at 938 Hess Lane Louisville, Ky. Our topic is Lou Tate and the Little Loomhouse.

Teka: Tell me a little something about yourself.

Roy: Well, basically I’m a woodworker and its sort of an odd thing. My first real job was building pipe organs. And during the Depression things changed and I had to seek other employment and it was at Gamble Brothers.

Then later on it was at Anderson Woodworking. And in between I worked for myself for a while. And I end up now being a pipe organ builder, see. So that’s the complete cycle. That’s where I stand right now.

Teka: Tell me how you first heard of Lou Tate.

Roy: I suppose I heard of Lou through Sam Kendrick and Sue Kendrick. See, Sam worked at Gambles and I worked at Gambles . I think, I believe Sam designed the loom and I think Sam designed the little shuttle that she used. And they made a few looms for Lou. And for some reason or other they decided not to make them, or whatever, I just don’t understand.

And that’s how I got in touch with Lou. I said, “Lou, would you like for me to make the looms?” See. And that’s how the contract was made so I just worked on and off with Lou ever since, on her looms.

It’s like everything else. I was looking for sort of a side line, you know what I mean, not as a, you know, a compulsory thing at all, but just as a way to make a little extra money along the side without any pressure, see.

And it worked out pretty good. She was looking for somebody like that, too. And so between the two of us, why, we were able to get along. She furnished most of the materials. And it was just a matter of assembly and that sort of thing, and, you know, so it worked out very well.

Teka: Did you call her up and make an appointment; did you just arrive out there?

Roy: No, I just walked out to see her.

Teka: What did you think when you first walked in the front there? Anything?

Roy: Well, yes, it was all brand new to me. I mean, you walked up to Tophouse. And I suppose there must have been a hundred looms sitting in that Tophouse on the shelves all with a different pattern on each loom. It was quite surprising to figure out how in the world she could sit there and figure out all the different patterns and had all those different looms sitting there.

Of course, she taught classes and I suppose it was a way of demonstrating and showing her students different things that could be done. But it was very interesting.

And the way she operated, I will never understand. You know, she had a system of sharing of some kind. I didn’t understand it. She would have these students come in and they were supposed to do a certain amount of work around the piece of property or help warp a loom or whatever was required towards the payment of their lesson, or.. It was a sort of a sharing thing and, of course, she published a paper, a magazine-type thing and that was a remarkable thing in itself unless.. you know, to me, it was, it was all algebraic and all sorts of designs. She sat there with this drawing board and figured all these patterns out. She had an IQ of 160 or so; she was a brilliant person.

And she knew history. She could talk about things, including anybody she wanted to pick out. She had a chance to teach as a professor, I think, in Chicago, which she turned down. She was not happy with it. She was an independent, self-reliant person.

And she did things her way. So that was not for her, see.

As I remember, her father was living and he did a lot of work out there to help her, you know, on the hill; helped her with repairing the buildings and keeping them in shape and doing one thing and another for her.

Of course, after his death, she lost a good friend when she lost her father, and then she had to make other arrangements. Along the way I lent a hand as best I could for her.

I know, one winter, I guess it was, we went out there and I bought a bunch of plastic for the windows and we had it all over the windows, at the Little Loomhouse, at the bottom of the hill.

And we did a lot of things for her and she always appreciated it. I built shelves for her in that room where she lived. She burned oil and that got to be a burden. She couldn’t handle it, see. So she asked if I’d buy an electric stove. So I went out and bought an electric stove. She had two twenty put in the house and she liked it so well I had to go out and buy her another one, you know. Ha! Ha!

And I think I took her to the library, you know, just all kinds of things, just to be helpful. But she was as honest as the day was long, I mean, she was just a solid citizen. While she was in the nursing home, why, she held classes with the people in the nursing home; taught them how to weave. And she couldn’t…she got to the point…, you know, she was used to being in that cabin; that was home. And that’s where she wanted to be.

And she had terminal cancer and she couldn’t get over it and she knew it; so if she was going to die, she wanted to die in a cabin. See, that was the story and so I think I went over to the nursing home and I got her and took her to her cabin and did some things for her and that’s where she died, I guess. No, oh, she ended up in the hospital. That’s right.

She ended up at Norton or Jewish, one of the two, and, well, that was , you know, a sad story, but anyhow… she was a very brave person to the very end. She was her own person in every respect. She held classes all the time for school children. I mean, they’d come up in the bus, you know, on that hill and that was her pride and joy, to teach the children and see them progress and to see them pick up the mechanics, you know, of weaving.

And the children got a lot of good out of it. There was a therapeutic advantage there and she also went to Fort Knox and had classes for the soldier boys during the War. In fact, we were out there one time with her.

She taught at the University of Louisville, I think. I think Ursuline College, I’m not dead certain, but she made herself known all around the city. She did a lot of good.

Teka: Did you ever get to watch her with the children?

Roy: Oh yes, and she was very genteel with them, you know, and encouraged them and just got a big kick of watching them work. She really did.

Teka: As you and she worked on the looms… tell me about the looms; what kind of wood you used…

Roy: Well, they were all hard white maple, mainly.

Teka: And why did you choose that kind?

Roy: Well, it’s a very durable wood. And it’ll take a lot of knocks and dents and rough handling, you know, and they stood up very well. Make them out of a piece of pine, why they’d fall apart.

Of course, I made quite a few improvements on the looms, with Lou’s approval, see. Originally they were put together with dowels and I never did think it was too satisfactory to glue a dowel so I wanted to put square strips with round edges and screws to hold everything in place and that made a real solid square frame.

She really liked that and she supplied all the beater [reed] frames and of course she put on all the heddles herself when she warped the looms. Well, it had to be a quite a precision job on the loom because when they put the roller on the front and the roller on the back and they started that around it had to roll straight. If it was sitting there at an angle, why it pulled. It had to be quite accurate so when it was warped it’d have a straight piece of goods come out of the back end and wouldn’t be pulled up all wrinkled, and that sort of thing. So it was a pretty good job.

Teka: What about the bench and the table and the treadles?

Roy: Well, I made some benches for her and also made some tables. In fact, I would take her to some of the woodworking plants in the city and introduce her to these fellows and then she would explain what she wanted, see, and then they’d furnish the lumber for her. I think Anderson supplied some materials for her; I think Gambles supplied materials for her. There’s a place down on 12th street; I can’t think of the name of the company, also supplied materials for her. Weiss Metal Works down on Hill Street provided some metal parts for her and so, in other words, I helped her find suppliers for her stuff.

And also, she used a spring, you know, when she had to separate the threads and you had to have a spring and the petals; you pushed one and the spring pulled it back up. I think I got somebody in town to buy the springs for her; the kind of springs she wanted, because she didn’t understand all that stuff so I was kind of helpful in that respect.

She paid her bills all the time; no problem. She knew how to handle the Little Loomhouse. I never did understand it, but she understood it. That was the main thing. Ha, ha. Well, go ahead and say whatever you wanted to say. (Speaking to Dorothy)

Dorothy: One the nicest things we had at the Loomhouse from time to time would be a party and if you ever saw the interior of the Loomhouse, the tables were the worktables. Everything was pushed back and the loom tables were put up here and she often made -ummm (Roy: potato soup) some sort of soup and put it in a huge tureen, great big gorgeous tureen. (Roy: Oh yea, great big bowl). And she’d have salad and all sorts…. (Roy: We’d have 15 people there, you know.) And everybody would be sitting at a different level, up here or down there, or ‘scooted’ over here, or kind of like this. There was no uniformity there. And it was very informal.

She’d have the coffee in back of her and she’d reach back. The silver was lovely. It was her mother’s silver. And lovely china. The soup tureen, I think was what I remember especially. And it was all very informal.

She’d wash her face and comb her hair down and put on a clean dress and she was ready to go.

Teka: What would the occasion be? I understand there were birthday parties.

Dorothy: Yes, there would be a birthday party now and then.

Roy: Each Christmas--that was a special season for her. She’d have everybody out sometime during the Christmas season (Dorothy: …during the holidays) during the holidays. And she’d have it decorated as best she could, you know. And she’d sit them all down to a nice-- well, whatever she had, and they all had a good time.

And that big. big fireplace--have you been in that house? She’d have a big fire in there, you know, and it was nice and cozy. (Dorothy: And sometimes she’d just take the table scraps and throw them over in the fire. Informality was the word.) Right.

Teka: Who were some of the people who would be there with you all?

Roy: Oh, I can’t remember those names. I don’t know if I can remember or not.

Dorothy: A couple of retired teachers.

Roy: Yes, there were. Oh, there were some quite influential people around who were members of that group. But as far as calling any names, I just couldn’t do it. I don’t know.

Teka: Did you all go into any of the Open Houses?

Roy and Margaret: Not recently, no.

Teka: But when Lou Tate was …

Dorothy: Oh, yea. (Teka: Well, tell about the Open Houses.) Well, it was just Open House. Everybody was welcome. Everybody brought something.

They were usually on a Sunday afternoon. You came and left at your pleasure. Pink lemonade was a favorite. And it was right outside the middle house. (Roy: Well, no, it was the top house, that flat spot up there.) Everybody knew everybody. You didn’t need introduction. You’d just said, “Hello. How are you?” and that was it.

There were famous people and then just average people. Everybody was welcome. Everybody enjoyed it.

She particularly liked children. She was a good teacher. And she demanded their respect and attention. She’d say, “No, we’re not doing it that way, hold it this way, no that’s wrong, this way.

She was a good teacher and they were well-rewarded by her praise and pink lemonade and sometimes she’d take them up the hill and they would hunt for--- fossils. (Roy: They had fossils on the hill; you know that place was probably water at one time. So it does have a history.)

And there were a lot of boys; a lot of boys who came; little boys, not big boys. (Roy: And she would tell us stories of in the early days when the Indians came through there, too. See, that was Indian country. Of course, I don’t suppose she ever had any contact with them. But that was the story, you know.)

Dorothy: I remember one time we all had a “to do” out there in the summertime. It was one of the first ones we went to. I’m glad you brought that up.

She said, “Just come!” As we parked the car and trudged up the hill there was a man sitting on a tree trunk or something and he had a gun slung over his shoulder. He had an old jacket on, you know, and (Roy: a big corn cob pipe about that long. She had these dressed up things like that and every now and then one of them would come out of the woods looking like a pioneer. So she did all that sort of thing and they had a nice time out there.) Everybody would bring something and it would be put on some boards on some sawhorses. Something like that. (Roy: It was all rough and ready.) And you usually sat at an angle, you know, part of you went this way.

There would be no two times alike.

Roy: She had quite a few problems in her later years. Water ran down that hill and down underneath the house and tried to wash it away. You know, she had quite a few problems there with the courts trying to get something done. It was kind of disappointing for her.

Dorothy: She was eccentric but she was solid. (Roy: Something like that.)

Roy: When we first met Lou, I think it was in 1948; that’s been a long time ago. And so we didn’t have any problems with Lou. She was always…

Teka: Did your boys go to the Open Houses then?

Dorothy/Roy: Once in a while when they were kids---to eat, you see. There were a lot of kids out there. It was something unusual to go out there and see those houses and all the stuff sitting around there.

Teka: Oh, yea.

I understand that she had contacts with Indians.

Roy: Well, it was my impression that a few years before she died she spent quite a bit of time in Florida with the Indians. Now, what the purpose was I can’t say, because I don’t know, but I’m positive that was the case. And she was gone for quite a while; she just locked up the house and left. You know, that was the way she operated.

Teka: Maybe the Seminoles, but we‘re not sure.

Roy: We’re not sure, maybe the Seminoles. I’m not positive about that.

Dorothy: And then, too, I recall she had an invitation to visit a friend and weaver up in Cape Breton. And as it happened, we took the Havre(?) trail and went up there one June. At that time Lou was quite, quite ill.

We talked by phone with the lady who had at one time visited Kentucky and the Loomhouse. And had a very nice conversation with her. We were about eighty miles from where she lived. Eighty miles up there and back was a little far with our itinerary. But we enjoyed that.

And then when we came home, why, she was very, very ill and died shortly after that, which was about six or seven years ago.

Teka: Six years.

Concerning the Indians…?

Dorothy: As I recall, when Lou was-- oh, probably before she got so involved with teaching weaving at the Loomhouse, she spent some time in Florida living with an Indian group. It seems to me that we even saw pictures of her. And she did everything they did. She melted right in with them. And they accepted her.

Roy: She had Indian relics hanging around in the house.

Dorothy: I would think that being the type of person she was, she knew how to conduct herself as a guest of this group. And she was one of the Indian family, for, I would say, maybe a few weeks during the summer.

Just before we went up to Cape Breton, Roy and I went to see Lou Tate and tell her of our plans and get a little information about the person we were to contact when we got up there. And so we did that and had a nice conversation and I think she intimated that she was looking forward to hearing what her friend had to say when we came back. She was rather expectant.

And she had a little glass of violets that someone had brought her. And as I was going out the door, after we told her good-by, I said, ’Well, you’ll hear from us.” (And I’d just as soon forget that.) She said, “Dorothy, you take this little glass with you and she pitched the violets out and gave me the little glass.

And so that was our last words to Lou; “We’ll see you when we come back and we’ll have all the news from Cape Breton.”

I have the glass now in my china cabinet.

Roy: …sitting behind the door and I said, “What the heck you doing with this gun, Lou?” (Teka: Mr. Heimerdinger has a gun.) Ha, ha. And she says, “You want that thing?” I said, “Well, sure, I’ll take that.” So I became the proud owner. I don’t know how old this thing is. It’s an old gun. Oh, it’s about five shots. I’ve never shot it.

Teka: What kind of a gun is it?

Roy: It’s a twenty-two rifle, a semi-automatic, I guess. Now, I’m going to pull the trigger. Ha, ha, ha. Click.

Teka: Mr. Heimerdinger did build the last one hundred and twenty-five looms that were made for the Lou Tate Foundation Inc.

This is the end of my interview with Roy and Dorothy Heimerdinger. Side one, tape one.