Oral History Interview Micki Lawson

Interviewer: Today is March 22, 1985. My name is Teka Ward. I am interviewing Mickie Lawson. We’re at 329 Possum Path, Louisville, Kentucky. Our topic is Lou Tate and The Little Loomhouse. As we begin, tell me something about yourself first.

Mickie: Well, I’m a resident of Kenwood Hill- have been since ’64. My children went up to Lou’s to weave and we’ve known her for so long- well, we knew her before we moved up here.

Teka: But you’re an artist also?

Mickie: Yea, I’m a local artist. Lou would do so many things for you when she knew you were an artist. She would, uh, introduce you to people. Just always be so thoughtful of the other person. She liked creativity. She really appreciated that and in her way, she loved it and she always liked- I think a lot of the people that were around her were creative. They did different things- all that kind of different things, but, uh.

Teka: How did you first hear of her?

Mickie: Well, we lived over on Esplanade and uh, I had always heard of the place but I have never seen it. It always stuck in my mind that I’ve got to see this place. So then my daughter said that all the children were going up to weave. And Lou would uh, they’d go up and I think they would take like fifty cents and they’d go up to weave and then Lou would pile them, after the class, pile them in her station wagon w/the dog- I can’t remember the dog’s name- and they’d all go to get an ice-cream and the dog would get an ice-cream too. Isn’t that marvelous? So I got to know Lou and she was so interesting to me. She was so different and always had something to teach you. I mean something about history, something you didn’t remember or something you’d never heard of. Always had something so interesting that it was a joy to go up there and listen to her. She was a story teller. I loved it- she would be just so fascinating. It was great- it really was.

Teka: When was it? What year was it that you lived on Esplanade?

Mickie: Well, we moved there in fifty-two. This would have been in the late fifties I suppose because we moved here in sixty-four. After we moved up here, she said, “be very careful moving on the Hill because that it is very dangerous to build a house on the Hill” and (laughs) I found that out…but I still loved it. I would invite Lou for the holidays lots of times- in later years and of course Kenny and she would go different places. She’d come down and I’d say, “come for Easter”, “come for….” I’d always have Christmas Dinner on Christmas Eve and uh, she’d come down and She’d say, “Oh, I love the turkey but the dressing I love best, I love the dressing” She wouldn’t stay too long because it’d be time for someone to take her home or walk up w/her or something. Oh, we felt like she was just part of- she didn’t come down all the time but she came down quite often.

Teka: Did your children learn how to weave?

Mickie: Oh yeah, even the boy. They would make them head pieces like Indians you know, yeah, the boys liked to weave too. Once I saw her, I knew my nephew- his class was goin’ to be up there- so I walked up the Hill and then walked down and she was sitting w/the class and I stopped and listened- and oh, if you had a tape of that, a video of that- what she did for the children- the way she taught, was wonderful. She really did a wonderful job and that’s what lessons w/children were like. The eyes just popping open, just listening to everything about cloth making.

Teka: What kind of things would she…

Mickie: Well, she would tell the children, well, “where do you think that you get your clothing”? and so forth- and she’d say, “years ago, you didn’t go out and buy those, you’d weave it” “Well first of all you would spin the yarn and then you’d weave it” and they didn’t know this so I didn’t even realize this because they wouldn’t. I mean and I remember when they had sheep up there showing people how they did it- that’s wonderful.

Teka: And then would she demonstrate the weaving?

Mickie: Oh yeah, and then they all would get to weave. Every one got to weave a piece and then that would be sent to them. They all had their names on it but they all got to weave. That’s the weaving experience. Isn’t that wonderful for a child?

Teka: Would she also discuss history while she was teaching?

Mickie: Oh yes, she was always throwing different things in- yeah.

Teka: And would she give them a little bit of history of the surrounding area?

Mickie: Oh yes, oh yes. Oh she would tell them about the Indians. She knew the one chief who would come to visit her up here from Cherokee, Carolina, up there, you know, the Smoky Mountains and uh, she gave my son a quiver where to put his arrows in and it was woven by this chief- so we really, uh, we treasure that to no end.

Teka: Did you used to go to some of the open houses?

Mickie: Oh yeah, well everybody would, well, it was so much fun sometimes because we’d all bring food and Lou sometimes Lou would have a ham baked or something’ and we’d all bring different things and then they’d sing and there’d be music and the one guy- I think it was Freddie- she’d play the violin and it was just a lot of un and then she’d have her chili supper in January and oh, we’d have a good time then. Somebody would help her make the chili or somebody would make it- I don’t know- and then we’d have a – I’m sure at one time, Lou lived, she lived on Third Street and they lived very well and uh, she had lovely linens, lovely china, lovely silver and she still had a lot of that and, uh, she would serve that well, you know, all the- so it was a lot of fun- we just

Teka: Did she ever talk about her childhood to you?

Mickie: Yes, and she talked about her father or her family buying this land for her up here. So she could weave and I think didn’t she go to the, she went to the University of Michigan. I think. Of course Berea and all that. But she’s a research- she considered herself a research on weaving, a researcher on weaving. And of course she was. She was more famous through the United States and all over the world than she was in Louisville. Louisville didn’t really understand and appreciate her when they had her, which is sad.

Teka: You said that when she would announce these open houses, she would send out mailings. Tell me about that.

Mickie: Well, she’d always send me little letters, you know, invitations and a little card that I showed you. She would put your name down and you were a special guest and so forth. It really was nice and you’d get to meet all these people. She had people from everywhere- just all over. And oh, it was fun to go out there- it really was. It was, ah, because of the old houses. They’d been there for so long and I know you know the story of the famous people that had gone- that had been there like Frank Lloyd Wright and uh, Mrs. Uh, Eleanor Roosevelt and she would, oh, she loved to tell that. She was invited to Washington, oh Lou was just-

Teka: Would she show you or talk about Frank Lloyd Wright? What was it like when she would tell you the story? How would she tell it?

Mickie: She would, I can’t remember the uh, the quote that he said, there’s something board and batten cottages set in, uh

Teka: Did she hear him say that in person? Was she…

Mickie: I thought so, yes. He was up there and saw the places, yeah. Buy, uh, she told about Eleanor Roosevelt coming up and at that time, her house was the end of the street. Since then it has gone through. Before that, it was just to her house and Eleanor Roosevelt came up and the FBI had the car parked at the end o f the road and wouldn’t let anybody up, see? She told about that so can you imagine the uh. She was interesting- there was just no doubt about it and everybody loved her. She’d go over here to the grocery and everyone knew her. They all knew her and uh, she was just a very famous person in the South End- and loveable. I mean, uh, and uh, she had her idiosyncrasies, but she still, uh, she still uh she cared about the person so much. And she always said that what we should have- we’ve made a mistake by having schools so large and pulling all the children for this large area. We should have smaller schools so they could feel closer to their schools and be there and be doing things all the time and now we realize that is true.

Teka: And then, she would use you, kind of like uh, if you could understand something…

Mickie: Yeah, she would bring down something she had written for The Weaver. And of course I didn’t weave and I didn’t know why- I had woven just a little piece- I really didn’t know anything about it and she would bring these papers down and she’d say, “Now Mickie, you read that and if you can understand it then my weavers will be able to understand it” and I said if I would tell it to anyone, will they say it was an insult- but it wasn’t. but it was that she knew that if I knew what she was saying, a weaver would know easily, so, it was- I’d be her sounding board every once in a while (laughter).

Teka: Now we have your page where a drawing by you

Mickie: Uh huh. Yeah, I did that- had the, they did all the dying and so forth and they took the different things. People would come up to buy the woolens for sweaters to knit sweaters and these colors were so gorgeous. They were the natural dyes, you know, vegetable dyes. But she asked me if I would do a drawing and then, uh, I started to have the children liked to draw and she would have different things for them and then she’d say, well then I would teach ‘em how to maybe draw the Queen’s Lace or something and uh, it was fun, it really was. I’d tie it in together.

Teka: You did a lot of the drawings for her.

Mickie: Yeah, I did different things for her, yeah. Yeah, she would love to have me draw, uh. I have drawings of her looms and uh, then I would always try to remember the, if there would be a coverlet there, I would try to remember the design and uh, cause the weavers knew the design but this was sort of Greek to me. I didn’t know all this. But uh, anytime I would draw the things, I would always try to put down what kind of design it was. Just like those pillows, like “Forsaken Lover”, isn’t that, Lou had all these uh, titles for each design. That was interesting to me even though I didn’t weave. I loved it. She said years ago, they would trade their designs. The people years and years ago, they would write letters and they would tell about a new design and they would send it to one another. Now I think one letter I showed you from way back when said something about that.

Teka: You said that they would have sheep at the open houses?

Mickie: Yeah! (laughter) and they’d have the spinning and uh, one time they had the sheep out there and that was interesting because they did all the carding and uh, the wool and it makes you realize what people had to do to have clothing years ago______you’d take a bolt, go to the store and buy something, we had to do all these things.

Teka: What about Brother Kim- do you know him?

Mickie: Yes, uh huh. Oh yeah. Lou thought so much of him. He was a very, very nice person. He had, oh, he did beautiful weaving. Just beautiful and he’d come up there every so often to the open houses. And he was from over in Indiana, which I can’t remember, which

Teka: St. Meinrad?

Mickie: St. Meinrad, yeah and I know I told Lou that uh, he was going to be here Saturday and Sunday and I said I’d be glad for him, you know and uh to stay here because I had the bedrooms and so forth and he did and he was so grateful of the whole thing. He was a fine inentelligable (weaver?) I haven’t seen him lately.

Teka: How did he and Lou get in touch w/each other?

Mickie: I have no idea. Probably he had heard of her but, uh, she had people from all over the world. I mean she had people come from down from Nova Scotia and she had people- people would hear about her in other states and when they came to Louisville, “oh, I want to see Lou Tate” but if Louisville would have just realized what a wealth of information uh and I think they did, they did later on. It took a while but they did.

Teka: Did she ever talk to you about any of her trips? Say to Chicago or to Nova Scotia?

Mickie: Yeah, I remember when she went to Nova Scotia and uh, then she went to Florida. That was late in her years.

Teka: What was she doing in Florida?

Mickie: She visited someone down there and uh, in Tampa? She went down there and then she would go, uh, visit here in Kentucky. Somethin’ in Union. She went down there because that’s where the Shakers? There’s that part of Kentucky where there…but it’s- I saw it in one of these papers. It’s somethin’ about Union. But she would go down there and she would talk about that. Oh, she loved goin’ to Nova Scotia. She liked that trip a lot. But she went in her younger years. She was up in, uh, they invited her to the White House you know.

Teka: Did she talk to you about that?

Mickie: Uh huh.

Teka: What did she say?

Mickie: Well, she would tell about how they would serve gorgeous dishes and so forth. Oh, she loved it.

Teka: We had a picture of Sarah Bailey.

Mickie: Yeah, Sarah was here on, uh, for some of the open houses and she was an interesting person. Yeah, I remember I wanted to buy one of her baskets she had made baskets out of honeysuckle. They were so pretty and I never got it. I just never, you know somehow or another, it got, I just never got my order in to get it and I’m sorry now that I didn’t because it- she wove beautiful baskets.

Teka: What would she do when she was here?

Mickie: She did spinning. I can remember her standing at the spinning wheel.

Teka: Did Brother Kim do spinning also?

Mickie: Oh yeah, uh huh, yeah. They all… uh, just like uh, Ed Deines. They did a lot of the vegetable dying and they had that big pot there you know and they’d start that fire and uh, they’d have all the different things like onion skins and uh, oh, it was so interesting and like for Christmas, they were so amazed at the color that walnut, acorns and everything and uh, you uh, any vegetable , just like your Queen Ann’s Lace. There were so many things that they’d get these gorgeous colors. They were so beautiful, so pretty. Dye the yarns and uh, you could never get that color uh, commercially- those vegetable dyes just beautiful colors.

Teka: Did you ever watch her weave?

Mickie: Lou?

Teka: Uh huh.

Mickie: Uh, uh, she uh, she was such a terrific teacher for the children because um, she liked them to weave, not just see the weaving. She wanted them to hands on weaving. She loved the idea and she had such good ideas about education. She would tell you that well, uh, she thought that there were a lot of people teaching that didn’t like children and she said that that was bad. That was just you had to love the children to be able to teach them and I believe she was so right. But uh, oh, I miss her, I really do.

Teka: You knew her in the fifties and you knew her in the sixties and you knew her in the seventies. How would you characterize her during those different decades?

Mickie: She was uh, I’d always said, she was a breathe of fresh air in this materialist world and that is true. She had so many, she hadn’t aged. She really did- we enjoyed her.

Teka: How did she feel as she got older?

Mickie: She’d get rather cross w/things. I mean, uh, I guess we all do that. She’d get irritated w/somebody and be angry w/them for a while and then she’d get crabby w/them and uh, you know, I think that uh, that’s human nature.

Teka: Were you there for the Landmarks Dedication?>

Mickie: Yeah, uh huh, yeah.

Teka: What was that?

Mickie: Uh, we all had our pictures, uh, we all had our picture made and they showed the whole thing and I think it was Dexter Wright. He was the state representative at the time and I think that was when they did that but. She was thrilled to death w/that. Yeah, cause it’s a shame that she can’t see the wall above it that saved her cabins because she didn’t get to see that and they put a wall up there and they really did a good job. I mean that wall and they put such a footing under it and I know it has really helped. So-

Teka: Did she used to talk to you about that?

Mickie: Oh yeah. She was so unhappy because they water was coming through the house. I mean through the bottom of the houses and just ruining the whole thing- and then she’d get angry w/the squirrels (laughter) because they’d get up in the attic and she’d had lots of paper and everything and she’d tell my son, “come down here w/your bow and arrow and kill all these squirrels” (laughter) and I said, “Don’t you dare”! “There’s a law you can’t do that in this city” she said, “you just come down here anyway- I want to get rid of those squirrels” (laughter)

Teka: You said that you knew Nell Patterson.

Mickie: I knew her husband. She had died about – of course I had heard so much from the Art Center.

Teka: Which you attended

Mickie: Yeah, uh huh and uh, when I went up there over there on First Street in the sixties, he was still there. It seemed like it was somewhere in the sixties and he would sell supplies and he was so funny. He was a scream. He was a character. A lot of fun. Nice. I was there taking from Etta Janson but I had heard so much of Nell Peterson cause I know she was a very talented person. But I don’t think I had ever met her- I don’t know.

Teka: We have a copy of the article that you saved of your teacher- tell about that.

Mickie: Well, I saved, uh, this article out of the paper and it was all my teacher from the Art Center- Lucy Dehes (sp) and oh just so many different ones and Lionel Crouse, who was the teacher of Barney Bright and he would come in, would commute from Cincinnati and come in every Friday, so I saved this. And later, many, many years later, I’m sure it was in the sixties or some time I got that newspaper clipping out and here w/that clipping on that clipping was all about the Loomhouse and I just couldn’t believe it. Isn’t that something? Cause I didn’t know the Loomhouse when I was going to the Art Center!

Teka: And then after you saw it is that when you showed it to Lou?

Mickie: Yeah, I showed it to Lou, uh ,huh. She wanted to have copies made of it because it was from Forty-two I believe. She was tickled pink w/that because, uh, she loved that someone had found something like that and she wanted to have this copied because it told about the Loomhouse in the war years and so forth and I told her I said I can’t believe that when I cut this newspaper clipping out I didn’t know anything about the Loomhouse. I didn’t know Lou Tate. But it was on that clipping part of that clipping.

Teka: We have a number of clippings that are – that you saved.

Mickie: Uh huh. I’m a packrat. That’s the word.

Teka: But Lou Tate knew you were saving these things, didn’t she?

Mickie: Uh huh.

Teka: Then there’s a letter to the editor from her concerning you.

Mickie: Uh huh. She told about my teaching up there w/the children and it complimented me so much. I had to cut it out and I really did ______ a lot. Because it – she just felt like teaching children was so important and it was nice of her. She would always help you- anyone she knew if that would help you she’d introduce you to these people and it was wonderful. It would help you w/different things. She’d say, “I want you to meet so and so” then she’d say, “I want you to meet my friend who’s an artist and she does this” and we’d hear the different things and that was nice because the information would go back and forth and that helped.

Teka: We have we took a photograph of a drawing of a Christmas card that you made and then painted in and we have two other pieces in it. Tell the story of those.

Mickie: Well, one is red w/a silver thread running through it and that’s for- it’s a Kleenex holder and I also got a small change purse and she got that down for a Christmas gift one year. And of course there’s the- it says Merry Christmas on it and uh, of course, I treasure that to no end. With this Kleenex holder, she has uh, this tag in it to say: Woven to say Merry Christmas, Little Loomhouse of Lou Tate, Louisville, Kentucky. Isn’t that nice? Treasure that forever! And I have this one that I really treasure. She made this and I’m sure she was very ill at the time and it has a tag in it that says: Little Loomhouse of Lou Tate and has the drawing of the house and on the other side she had woven her name into it- Lou Tate, yeah, and when my daughter got married- that’s something else when she got married- Lou, for a gift, gave her placemats and underneath, on the hem, she put their name and from Lou Tate and I think the date of their wedding, now, course my daughter wouldn’t dare use them! She treasurers them and keeps them as a keepsake and she had woven them.

Teka: You have these two pillows and you told me the name of them.

Mickie: Uh huh, yeah, I uh, one’s green and one has blue in it, navy blue and they’re the same size, although looking at them you can’t tell but, uh, it’s called, “Forsaken Lover”. I love that- it’s just so I think I’m going to put those away- treasure those too. I’m afraid somebody might ruin ‘em.

Teka: You were on the founding Board of Directors

Mickie: Uh huh

Teka: Tell about the time leading up to Lou Tate’s death, and then what happened afterward.

Mickie: Well, uh, I can remember that one time she had us take, she had us take, uh, on down to Norton’s Hospital cause Lou was down there and I know she was dying at the time and I asked the nurse if I could see her and I thought: well, if I could just say “hello” and walk out of the room you know and let her know – and she said, “well who are you” and instead of saying, “it’s Mickie”, I said, “one of the neighbors” well I should never have done that. And Lou said, “I don’t want to see them”. And after I walked out, I thought well that was stupid because she would have said, well, tell her- or said something to me or I would have seen her but she said no and she didn’t know which neighbor it was- that was foolish of me I never should have said It’s a neighbor but the nurse wanted to know who it was and I should have said, “Mickie Lawson”, one of the neighbors but I didn’t given ‘em my name. So, she had um and I doin’ different things for her at , uh, when she was so, uh, when she was dying. And she wrote something, she uh, kept a – not a diary, she kept a journal or somethin’. She did somethin’, she wrote about- in fact, Ann Kiper got her a book- Death and Dying- what is that? There’s a – and she was reading all that. And uh, sometime, maybe, uh…

Teka: Did she talk to you about that? Ever?

Mickie: Yeah, she knew she was dying. She knew she was. She would tell you, “well I plan to do this and if I could manage to do that” She knew she wouldn’t have time to do it was a shame she couldn’t have seen what had been done. It- but, I think that she knew that in time, that things would be done and people she’d have the continuity of the whole place- and I think it’s done. You get people you get enough people that it will continue on.

Teka: What was it like to be on the founding Board of Directors? Were you honored?

Mickie: Oh sure, I certainly was. I mean that they put me on it and it was interesting. There was a lot of things you had to work out. I mean, like we were talking about the, the uh, the boundaries of the land. I mean that was- had really been up in the air for so long. That was hard for Lou. She took that, uh, people wanted to take her land, you know and that was, she had, you know, she had squatters rights really so at but different times, most the neighbors helped her do this or that. I mean there were a lot of people who would do different things for her. For instance, you knew that once she gave her car away when she knew she couldn’t drive it anymore. So she gave it away. And uh, we knew that she couldn’t get to the library so different people would say, “I’m going to the library today” and she’d say, “I have some books to take back” and uh, she always appreciated that so much. She read mysteries- she loved mysteries. I never was a mystery reader and I often thought well, I really should she loved ‘em so much- maybe I’d get a kick out of ‘em, so she loved all the mysteries. She’d tell me different ones that she had read- “I read this one and I read that one” and they all knew at the library too. (bell ringing) Lou, she was very ill at the time and she, uh, Mary Ann Quiggins and I went up and she told us or she told me, “now Mickie” she said, uh, “I want to give you one of these baskets” – Course I love baskets and she said, “Do you like…” she gave me a choice of two. And one was a beautiful Cherokee basket that I knew was worth lots- course that wouldn’t have mattered but I knew it. It was beautiful and I had seen the Cherokee baskets down there but and she said or this one and that was my grandmothers and I’d carry eggs in it and it was a little broken and so forth and I said “well that’s the one I want” I had to have that one. It meant more to me so I’ve got it in- I’ll have to show you. I’ve got it in paintings. I put it, you know, incorporated into different paintings. In fact, I call one when I did all her baskets, I think it’s on some of the slides. I had the baskets together- uh, I called it “Lou Tate’s Baskets”. Course she liked the baskets.

Teka: You were telling me about the soldiers.

Mickie: Well, Lou would tell – I think it was during World War II. She would tell that they would write the soldiers from Fort Knox up- and they would have a dinner for ‘em and then they’d play Bridge and the family would be there and I think it was her Father, he liked to play Bridge and they’d all- they would entertain ‘em. Very well you know, so, uh, uh, when Lou would come down for dinner or if she’d come over, I would get so tickled because Lou never liked desserts. She never liked anything sweet and I’d always say, “Oh come have a piece of pie- come do this” No, no she didn’t like sweets, she’d never eat sweets.

The memory of this Hill, This Kenwood Hill is so great and Lou Tate is such a part of it. Lou Tate said that this hill was called “Sunshine Hill” by the Indians and uh, she said they didn’t live here, uh, they hunted here- they would come, they would uh, come a distance and hunt here and I suppose she was right because Newcut Road was supposed to be part of the Buffalo Line. Before they built houses on top of this hill, which they shouldn’t have done, but uh, it was all open up there and they should have made a park out of it- but they didn’t. But Lou would take the kids up they’d all hike up to Devil’s Backbone and sometimes they’d have a picnic up there and you can still see the stones and everything where they built a house but it was called Devil’s Backbone (laughter) It was pure fun knowing Lou, Lou Tate.

This is the end of the interview w/Mickie Lawson, Tape one, side one.