Oral History Interview Lee Ebner

WARD: I want you to tell me something about yourself first.

EBNER: You mean where I was born and so forth.

WARD: And what you do for a career?

EBNER: I was born in Pineville, Kentucky, and I went to Prep School in North Carolina - Presbyterian Boys School. I came back to Louisville and worked weather stripping for about a year. Then I went in the Navy six years. I went in 41 to 46. And then I came out and got a GI Bill, and then I went to the Art Center for 2 years. Then I went to Chicago for two years to the Chicago Academy of Fine arts. Then I came back to Louisville and could not get a job right away in art so then I went to B Goodrich for two years. And then I kept applying different places, and I finally go on at the Courier Journal and Louisville times. Then I spent thirty-two years there as a staff artist, and then I just retired this year - in June - and I’ve been doing volunteer work and civic duties and so forth.

WARD: When was the first time you heard of Lou Tate?

EBNER: I heard of Lou Tate through Nelli Peterson who was the director of the Arts Center in Louisville, and a I put off coming up to the cabins. I was interested in crafts at that time. After I came into the Kenwood area - it was in the late 50’s. Then I started coming up to the Little Loom House and some of the art exhibits they had up here. With the (inaudible) you know, they had regular summertime art, and then I was shooting pictures about that time, and I met Lou Tate and liked her program and her program with the children and all - I just started shooting some pictures for them. And they’d run sometimes on picture page in the Louisville Times. She got pretty good exposure that way and every now and then she would have a program going, and at that time, I would shoot a picture for her and turn it in.

WARD: What is your opinion of her?

EBNER: All she is a down to earth person . You had to get to know her though. There’s only one Lou Tate. And a later on, I got to know her a lot better because she’d tell me, If you really want to get in touch with she says, call me on the phone. If you’re trying to get me by the phone, just let it ring 30 or 40 times she says cause a lot of people will let it ring several times, and they will give up. She knew then that it was somebody that really didn’t want to get a hold of her so she ‘d be up at the Top House and she would hear it ring 30 or 40 times and she knew somebody was trying to get a hold of her so she would come down to the cabin so that ‘s the way I would get a hold of her by the phone. And eventually she would come to the phone you know. But later on she would come up and she would be inside and of course, she says, it’s her own business you know and if she didn’t want to see somebody, a lot of times she wouldn’t come out. Of course she had her own projects to work on . But then later on I would be up to the cabin and I would be walking away and she would come out you know and call me over, you know, but then later on I got to know her she would even come to the door. And lots of times she’d knew, you know and, real personal friends and that one tooth out and she might be barefooted. she was down to earth.

WARD: What did she look like?

EBNER: Oh, just plain. Clean. And just a a just home spun clothing you know a lot of times she’d wear shawls that she had made and just . Not a fashion plate but a just a home person - you know. -- You know somebody you would be close with you know.

WARD: Did she ever let you in the house? - In Esta?

EBNER: Oh, yeah, she a lot of times, if you would come up - just a small group - she would invite you up for chili supper, and a---she’d make pretty good chili. A lot of times, she would have a fire going in that front fireplace and that just an informal group, just maybe, four or six people, - something like that.

WARD: Who were some of the people you remember being there? o the man that made her looms and and Steve Hendrick and the _____ up at their cabin and a number of her students, Sally Moss and a that’s about all I remember. Did you ever watch her teach any of the young people.

EBNER: Oh, yeah, she had a real good way with children cause a - and a - one thing about her, I mean if a child a wasn’t really interested in it they didn’t hang around too much - you know - and a she would teach and have a whole lot of patience with them but she would tell them - you know - if they was going to be here, they had to work. They had to do something. It just wasn’t a place to play. They had fun time too. They had lots of times, you know in the summertime they had a what they called you know a but the thing was a she had two different cause she had some for the adult friends that came up - - - - a pink lemonade. But the thing was she two different types of pink lemonade . She had some for the adult fans that came up and the children came up one time and something about they noticed that the adults that the that she had that crock that she make that pink lemonade in said that seemed like the adults had more fun than they did.

WARD: Did you ever hear her tell the children a story when she was teaching them about history? O yeah she was a--- I mean about the weaving.

EBNER: Yeah - you mean weaving. (lady - yeah - did she ever ) Oh, yeah she brought that in. she would tell about the Indiana. I know she was associated with the Cherokee Indian reservation. She had friends over there. In fact at one time, she thought about a - she got a little bit disgusted here and she thought about a settling down around a o a down in North Carolina and then she gave that up. I think she a - I think part of it was the funds at that time from the city - you know for her work. and a - but she was really a I thought at one time that was her major a well.

WARD: Well think back on her in the 50’s when you first met her, and then in the 60’s and the 70’s. Tell me what she was like

EBNER: Well, I mean in the 50’s a she was a more she had more time it seemed like a dedication to the children work and her reading program. But then in the 60’s a the a problems started with the erosion you know people were moving up the top of the hill construction and _________ the erosion a it was affecting the top of the cabin and some of her cabins and she was trying to get the city to do something about it and she had some trouble with developers in the area and then she had a couple more law suits going kept her tied up with all these legal problems. and you know it took away from her time a teaching and she was a little frustrated about that time.

WARD: Is that when you think she became disgruntled or a frustrated with the city? I don’t think so you know, you said you brought the two children to see her a couple of years before she died.

EBNER: When I was there, my daughter and her husband and she was interested in clothing and just come up for a visit mostly to meet Lou Tate.

WARD: How did she seem then?

EBNER: You mean Lou Tate. Well she was always a pretty stable. All she was all the time. I mean you know she had a little medical problem going on. Oh yeah - that’s true too.

WARD: When you think back on her and you think of the photographs and all the pictures, that you took, do you have any that stand out in your mine?

EBNER: Maybe just whenever the children and maybe she had that cigarette hanging out of her mouth and she would sometimes then she would keep telling me I don’t want to be in it - I don’t want to be in it. I would tell her o it’s all a part of the composition and all. You know you’re the instructor but a she a really had a way with children because a I remember this one child - this 5 year old she introduced me to. And she said this is one of my instructors. Instructors? I said and she said that’s because she is only 5, but she is teaching 8 year olds. She’s teaching this 8 year old boy because he don’t know anything about weaving, and she does and so she’s the instructor.

WARD: You served on the board of directors of the Lou Tate foundation Inc. Tell me about your involvement with that.

EBNER: Well I was interested in her program and Bob _____ was the first president of the LTF and the next year they asked me to serve on the board and I agreed to and I was the only male on the board. They had I think about 9 women . Some 8 or 9 women they got together and elected me president. And I didn’t think I should be president. They had more qualified people on the board than I was. That’s the way it turned out so I served the best I could that year and a--it was a good experience.

WARD: What did you think about people trying to carry out Lou Tate’s tradition?

EBNER: Well I thought they did a real good job with what they had to work with and then the - getting the funds from the city was I think the main things cause this was something that Lou Tate in her lifetime it just didn’t come her way.

WARD: Tell me when you found out that Lou Tate had died.

EBNER: Well just before she died, I guess there was a couple of days there I was dealt the paper and I was off on Sundays and Mondays and I was off till Tuesday and when I came in on a Tuesday I got this letter from Lou Tate saying she was in the hospital and that she was at Norton’s and a I thought well I will contact her and I will go see her and so I called her and I told them that I understood that Lou Tate was still there and I gave them her name Lou Tate and I said she will either be listed that way or she could be listed as Mrs. Bousman. and I spelled both of them out for ‘em and they told me they didn’t have a record of her. And I assumed that she was then released from the hospital and back at her cabin. So then I thought well then I will stop by and see her at her place a little bit and stop by and see her in maybe Oh 3 days or 4 days. And here I read in the paper that she passed away. And that’s how I found out that Lou Tate had died.

WARD: After you read about it in the paper, what was your next - what is the next thing you remember taking place in the form of the foundation and trying to get.

EBNER: Well, probably going to her funeral and coming to the funeral home I met some of the other members and they said they were getting together and going to try to carry on her work and a----they would all be in touch with each other. And a, that was basic, I guess of the forming of the getting the Lou Tate foundation underway.

WARD: After she was at the funeral home what (inaudible).

EBNER: I couldn’t think clearly. I says a, I was probably maybe a perhaps a more than a - about a week later because her brother and I think her nephew was here. So that you know they were here for the funeral so that before they left and went back - probably the next week. I’m just not clear on that.

WARD: What do you remember about the memorial service?

EBNER: Well it was a memorial service where several people that knew her sort of spoke and a, her brother said a few words about her background and so forth and a, this her friends were here and a in fact later on I wrote a letter to the editor a, letters you know column and a, because somebody else had came forward and they hadn’t written anything on her and expressing that what she meant to the community and to her friends and I stated then that this I believe at the memorial service that they had that Lou Tate was right there with us., you know at her cabins.

WARD: Do you remember going to the first foundation meeting?

EBNER: Yeah it was ___ at Masterson’s and a Mr. Fowler had been elected the director of the foundation and a Sue Kendrick was there and Bob Douglas and a couple of others had a happy party and a, formed the foundation.

WARD: And they elected _________at that meeting.

EBNER: I thought they did I’m just not--.

WARD: You liked Lou Tate, didn’t you?

EBNER: Yeah, I because I related her to the pioneers and the Smokey Mountains because this a one pioneer that was there before the Smokey Mountain Park was there - he was about 95 years of age. He was an originalist, and he was a beekeeper. He had his own cabin. He lived in this cabin since he was two years of age. And a, never had a car. In fact, Lou Tate gave her car away.

WARD: She had a car, didn’t she?

EBNER: Oh, yeah, she had a car. She had a car and there was some young man in the neighborhood and a I think she said that she didn’t use her car and she just let him have the car - just gave it to him. And my wife and I we used to see her down at the shopping center. She would be standing out waiting for a bus to ride the bus out and we would pick her up . And then later (cough) I guess this was a year before she passed away, a my wife would call her up and ask her if there was anything that she needed you know that she would take her down to the shopping center and so me and my wife would bring her down to the shopping center and bring her back and that a way you know she would get her supplies in you know or anything she needed and

WARD: Now, beside her weaving, what else do you think she did?

EBNER: Well she was a late night person and she listened to the radio. She knew music. She knew politics. And a very seldom got a paper. And a really a, I just didn’t know that much about her other than that. And a, she was I don’t think she was a lonely person because a--she just lived by herself. I mean she was satisfied that away.

WARD: did you ______________ celebration?

EBNER: Yeah I was up here that day. Cathy Sloan and a Senator Mazolli and several others, David Banks I think was here. And pretty interesting program.

WARD: Was Lou Tate happy?

EBNER: Oh, yeah. and a I was trying to think a of the teenies were here. Several friends and a lot of outsiders a O _____ of a lifetime came through the cabins she had people that would come and stay with her sometimes. I know this one up in Pine Mountain Sunday school a--she was thinner, Sarah Bailey. In fact, she wove me a pair of socks and she’s come and stay sometimes. And of course she had friends all the way up to Nova Scotia a real good friend up there who was a weaver. Lou Tate was known all over the country. Lots of time more so outside the city or the state than in the state. And you asked about a _______. I didn’t know him till after she passed away. I don’t think some of the other people did either until they went through some of the pictures she was actually the maid to President Hoover’s wife (?). This was when she was at Berea College and someway there was a connection there. They were looking for some student a, to do this work and Lou Tate fit the description and she went on up to Washington and she would go talk to Mrs. Hoover and Oh look after her and be a companion to her. And I think she went to a see some pictures and I know Oh read a little bit about Hoover’s history . He was a great fisherman and he had his a ____ or his cabin and she’d go on the summer with them and stay there at the _____

WARD: There’s a photograph here at the Loom House - tell the story behind that.

EBNER: Well, I’d say picture that station at West Pendleton and it went with a story that a ____ did of Lou Tate the art part of that _________ and I thought well, I would check on the original art and I asked Wess Kimmel ____ it was because I wanted to get a copy of it. And he told me, he says well you can have the original art so I latched on to the a original artwork and had a number of copies made and a brought them up to Lou Tate told her that I was going to have one framed and I have an extra copy and that I’d keep the original art work in case anyone wanted a copy of it Oh and so I suggested that she sign the a original art work . She wanted to sign it down in the lower left-hand section of the illustration (phone rings) on the left so I had finally had to tell Lou Tate to sign it in the left hand side right up near the loom that was the story of that.

This is the end of the interview side 1 tape 1 with Lee Ebner