Oral History Interview with Francis Comer

[Begin Tape #1, Side #1]

KLEE: This interview is being conducted for the Kentucky Oral History Commission on burley tobacco by John Klee and I'm talking to Francis Comer. We've kind of been talking awhile but why don't you start back and just tell me a little bit about your background, about your education and some of your early years.

COMER: I was educated at the University of Dayton Prep School . . .

KLEE: Now you're a native . . . you're a native . . .

COMER: I'm a native of Mason County, but our high school was the University of Dayton Prep School from 1919 to 1923. And then I attended Villanova College for two years and translated . . . transferred to Columbia University which I worked for about six months and obtained a job in the financial section down at Wall Street and I worked . . . that was 1926-7. And I worked there until 1931 and I was driven home by the Depression. And then, in 1932, I applied and got a job with American Tobacco Company. I worked myself up to sort of a foreman . . .

KLEE: Now what were . . . what . . . that was here in Maysville?

COMER: That was in Maysville.

KLEE: And what were they doing then?

COMER: They . . . Maysville . . . the American Tobacco Company had a redryer plant on at Maysville. In the . . . their peak year, they processed twelve million pounds of tobacco.

KLEE: Geez.

COMER: That was `32-3 when they had a large crop.

KLEE: Now they would . . . they . . . they were just redrying it and then shipping it off to . . .

COMER: Yeah. Redrying it and putting it in barrels and they stored it up along the railroad and so it was available to be shipped out on cars. But unfortunately, the `37 flood . . . there was about two to three million pounds of American Tobacco that was lost in the flood. It got wet. Was not usable. And they were disenchanted with Maysville after the second flood they were in, so they curtailed their operation. They went into what they called green packing, which [inaudible] and simpler. And they went to high ground.

KLEE: Yeah. Let me ask you a question, just about those few years with the American Tobacco Company. Now what were . . . what kind of tobacco were they looking for then?

COMER: The American Tobacco . . . it's . . . they . . . they've always . . . they've never changed their . . . their . . . the type of tobacco they like. They like a thin, mountain-ish type of tobacco and they don't care much for the heavy-bodied tobacco that is more native of this area. But there's a lot of eastern mountains that comes to Maysville, and they generally fulfill their needs from that.

KLEE: Now they would look for that kind of tobacco on the floor?

COMER: Yes, they would definitely, and they still do. They're . . . they're . . . they're . . . they haven't changed their tastes over the number of years that I've known them.

KLEE: Now doesn't grow that kind of tobacco, but . . .

COMER: Yeah.

KLEE: . . . going farther . . .

COMER: Farther east it does.

KLEE: Uh-huh. Yeah.

COMER: On occasion, we have some thin tobacco, but it's unusual. But I've noticed . . .

KLEE: Were you . . . go ahead.

COMER: . . . I've noticed, though, when tobacco gets real scarce that they . . . they pick the heavier kind. It's better than what they have. And . . .

KLEE: They got . . . they got pushed out in thirty- . . . or they left in `37. What happened to you then?

COMER: One of their storage houses, the one on Wood Street along the railroad, they converted into a tobacco warehouse, and I was asked to participate in running it, along with C. M. Jones, a gentleman from Mullin, South Carolina, who had helped to start the warehouse business in Maysville in 1908. And Gordon Lambert and myself. And the first day of sales, the market opened low.

KLEE: Now this was in?

COMER: Nineteen thirty-eight . . . `37 and `38. This was the year of the flood, but was . . . the flood was in January and this was December of that year. And I was in the office and I heard all this commotion outside, and I went out and here was these farmers with tobacco sticks whooping and hollering and I met my partner, and I said, what's going on? And he said, "The farmers have stopped the sales," and every once in awhile a buyer would tear by me, kind of headed for the front door. Some of them were running pretty fast, and others were at a fast jog, and I asked, what about Mr. Jones? And he said, "You and I better go hide. Mr. Jones is shaking hands with them." And so things quiet down in about a half an hour, so we presented the tobacco for sale the next day. And would you believe it? It was about five cents a pound higher the next day.

KLEE: Yeah, now that . . .

COMER: And I'm not in favor of violence, but that . . . maybe it did help.

KLEE: Worked that time, huh?

COMER: [chuckle] It worked that time. It just definitely . . .

KLEE: So the farmers had actually chased the buyers out of there?

COMER: Yeah, they chased them out of the warehouse.

KLEE: Wonder if that had happened . . . wonder if that happened very frequently or . . .

COMER: It had happened once before, back in the 20's. I heard other warehousemen telling . . .

KLEE: Talking about it.

COMER: . . . yes, we had a low market after World War I. Market for tobacco got real low and they stopped the sales. The threat of violence [inaudible]. Then in 1937 and `8, our ware-, our warehouse averaged ; 1939, seventeen eighty-nine; and in 1940, thirteen seventy-seven. Well this was a low year. It was a bad crop, and in 1939, congress had passed what is known as the Tobacco Inspection Act and that was . . . they have these government graders, they would inspect it. They had no authority, but they would put these . . . they would classify and then you would compare grades, see. If a farmer, another farmer had the same grade as you had, and you didn't get so much money, maybe your pile of tobacco should be rejected. Maybe they'd overlooked your pile. That was . . .

KLEE: So it helped a little bit.

COMER: It was a comparative . . . comparison is what it was.

KLEE: Well, and then this . . . when . . . after the market was so low, during Christmas we got Fred Vinson and . . . I mean some congressmen, Mr. Bates and Mr. . . . oh, who's the guy? Alben Barkley. We established price support and we established it on these government grades. Each government grade called for so much price support. And before Christmas, the lugs of tobacco, which is the prime leaf in stalk tobacco, had been selling for fifteen cents and the government price was twenty-three. And the bright leaf, it was selling for twelve and thirteen cents; it was twenty-one. And everybody thought that the government was just foolish paying all that tobacco. Course they got about eighty percent of it. But unfortunately, the market was sold out. It . . . the crop had been eighty percent sold before Christmas, so not too many farmers participated . . . benefited by it. SO everybody thought the government got . . . I got figures here . . . the government got over forty million pounds out of that crop, and everybody thought the government would never sell it. But along in August, the companies looked at it. They had inspectors. And by November, they bought it all. Adolph Hitler was marching, and in 1941, the market jumped from thirteen seventy-seven to twenty-eight eighty-five. Course that was the beginning of the war, December 7 we were in war.

KLEE: And there was more demand for cigarettes.

COMER: More demand and the following year, it had climbed up into the 40's.

KLEE: Geez.

COMER: Yeah.

KLEE: Let me ask you about those early warehouse years. What was . . . what was . . . I need, really, to talk a little bit to you about what is the role of the warehouseman. What . . . what does a warehouseman do. But those early years, how'd it differ from what they do now?

COMER: We . . . our process is primarily the same. We're commission merchants. We take it off the farmer's truck and put it on baskets, and then it's sold. We . . . we sort it according to the grades, basically five grades, and then it's . . . put it on the floor and it's auctioned off. We have an auction . . . auction system. And each pile is sold to the highest bidder. And we sell three hundred sixty piles an hour, and it's pretty fast. But they know what they're doing and I . . . I think it's the best way to handle tobacco because you get . . . you get several people's opinion on it, and another nice thing about it is that we operate about three, four weeks before Christmas, and in that three or four weeks, we sell in the neighborhood of four to five hundred million pounds of tobacco in Kentucky, and the farmers have Christmas money, money for bills, interest, and who had . . . for all necessary . . . and there's some talk about maybe having the manufacturers take the tobacco in their doors and that would be a long, slow process. They'd be up to April and May getting it . . . getting it off . . . from the farmer to . . . to the companies. But I . . . I'm . . . [inaudible] because I'm in the warehouse business. I think it's the way to sell tobacco. I . . . I . . . it's an orderly fashion. Now I notice the first years when you were . . . when you were in the warehouse, everybody was hand-tying, of course.

COMER: Yes, all of it was hand-tied.

KLEE: And how many grades did the farmers usually . . .

COMER: Oh, basically then, there was five, sometimes six grades. And now it's down to three, and some farmers put it up . . . some of them in one and two. But I've always advocated three basic grades. That's what the government supports.

KLEE: Is that including throwaway grade, too?

COMER: Yes, [inaudible], that made really four on account of the castoff.

KLEE: I see.

COMER: And . . .

KLEE: Now when there weren't price supports, was there a lot more competition between the warehousemen because . . .

COMER: Yes, and the worst thing about not having price support, was late in the season, when we call the barrels all being filled up, that last week of sales, it's terrible. The buyers were reluctant, especially if the crop was large, were reluctant to buy it and it was just . . . got very low, and be off . . . it would be off ten cents a pound from the high and when you're talking twenty and twenty-five cents a pound tobacco, that . . . that was really . . . that's a terrible loss. And with this price support, that means that if a man sells late, he . . . he gets a decent sale. He may not get the top market. But he's within a dollar or two [inaudible].

KLEE: Um, hmm. Sure.

COMER: And getting back to . . .

KLEE: Yeah, so . . .

COMER: . . . what's the best thing to ever happened is the grading and price support. It's . . . it's done more for our tobacco markets than anything else. And then, along comes 1950 and there was an article in Reader's Digest called "Cancer by the Carton" and it brought out the fact that cigarette smokers were inclined to develop lung cancer and emphysema. And they . . . the companies decided it was heavy burley tobacco that was the prime offender, so they went into thinner tobacco, plus tobacco from down south. And as the pool . . . I got the figures here . . . the pool, in four years, had amassed five hundred and twenty-four million pounds which was practically a crop, and then lo and behold, filter cigarettes made their appearance about `53 or `4, and they found that to get the taste of tobacco, it was necessary to have some good strong burley, and to pull it through that filter. And suddenly burley become real popular and we . . . we had a good market for burley ever since.

KLEE: So, now during the war years, what was the market like then? I guess the market was high?

COMER: We had . . . we had a . . . the government was afraid the market would run away, so they established a ceiling. Each grade that was graded for a ceiling, and the farm-, the tobacco manufacturers was . . . they were anxious to have it so the tobacco auctioneers would allocate it. In those days, three big companies, American, [R. J.] Reynolds, and Liggett & Myers was a factor, and they got about ninety percent of the smaller companies and dealers [inaudible].

KLEE: Okay, now you've mentioned those three companies. Were those the same three that were pretty dominant when you started?

COMER: Yes, they dominated it for years. Course Liggett & Myers sort of faded out, and a company called Philip Morris has taken their place, and they're . . . they're great big.

KLEE: There's still three . . .

COMER: There's still . . . they're the three major ones. Reynolds and Philip Morris and American.

KLEE: And a lot of little companies?

COMER: Yeah, there's several smaller companies that . . . Brown & Williamson is an export . . . they've got English ties. And then there's dealers . . . [P. L.] Lorillard . . . Lorillard participates, and then there's several dealers. We have . . . in a normal auction, we have seven buyers. The tobacco companies plus the dealers and . . .

KLEE: Now do they bury any of those . . . those dealer-buyers or . . .

COMER: Yes, it . . . they . . .

KLEE: They might be on the market one year, and not the next?

COMER: When the market . . . when tobacco is scarce, the . . . the major buyers will give the dealers some business. And they'll have them buy some for them. That way they . . . they get more tobacco because they know that the auctioneer will only knock them so much, allow them so much, but they . . . they participate in what the dealer gets.

KLEE: You were talking about now . . . the . . . the type of tobacco grown during the 40's . . . was it similar to what we have now?

COMER: When I first . . . when I was first in the warehouse business, the [inaudible] went in for a very thin type of tobacco. That was . . . cigarettes were . . . [inaudible] tobacco type.

KLEE: That's what the companies wanted?

COMER: Yeah, that's what they wanted. And the average yield then was around eleven hundred pounds per acre. Then during the war, with that big demand, the companies would take heavier tobacco, so the developed some types that would weigh a ton. And for instance, last year, all the tobacco in averaged almost twenty-four hundred pounds per acre. But I consider this year with the dry weather and everything . . .

KLEE: Oh yeah.

COMER: . . . to be down considerably. But the whole . . . the whole image of tobacco has changed from a thinner type to a heavier type.

KLEE: Now, during that tobacco . . . that first cigarette . . . I guess cancer scare, right after that first . . . the government accumulated a lot of pool tobacco . . .

COMER: Yes they did. They had a half . . . like in four years, they had almost about three-, three-fourths or eighty percent of [inaudible], and it looked like maybe . . . [inaudible] the filters and the . . . made the demand for heavier types really bailed us out, and burley . . .

KLEE: They needed the burley to bring out that flavor through the filter.

COMER: Yeah, and I have some figures here that show that, over the years, burley has held its own. In 1950, there was fifty percent of flue-cured in cigarettes. Thirty-five percent . . . but it dropped to thirty-five percent in 1981. And burley, in 1950, there was thirty-three percent of burley. And in 1981, it was 31.52 [percent] . . . yes, and it has declined very little, while . . .

KLEE: Flue-cured . . .

COMER: . . . flue-cured's off about twenty percent. Now what has made up the difference is foreign tobacco. The companies are being foreign tobacco. In 1950, it was six pounds per thousand . . .

KLEE: Per hundred.

COMER: . . . per hundred, and now it's thirty-one. And there . . . this . . . bringing in of foreign tobacco . . .

KLEE: Has really brought it up.

COMER: . . . has really hurt . . . hurt domestic production.

KLEE: Yeah, hurt the flue-cured a lot more than our market.

COMER: Yeah. Another thing, we found out that in 1950, they used to make . . . a pound of tobacco made a thousand and thirteen cigarettes, and now it makes seventeen hundred cigarettes.

KLEE: [chuckle] Gee.

COMER: And they have blown it up . . .

KLEE: Blown it up somewhat.

COMER: . . . to take . . . they get a lot more. They get a lot more out of the same tobacco. But I . . . last year, here's some figures on Mason County . . . last year, Mason County alone, which has eleven hundred and seventy-nine tobacco bases, they sold ten million three hundred . . . three hundred thousand pounds [10,300,000] pounds, and that . . . on that was almost eight-, eighty-four hundred pounds per allotment, and at $1.80, this figure is sort of an estimate, each one with a tobacco base received about fourteen thousand dollars. And it's . . . it's a tremendous factor in our economy.

KLEE: Yeah, considering . . .

COMER: Without tobacco, we'd really be hurting.

KLEE: Yeah, we have close to twelve hundred bases and only . . . only less than twenty thousand people in the county, so .

COMER: That's right.

KLEE: It's a lot of money coming into the town. Let me . . . let me go back and ask you about the market. Now the heavier tobacco is more popular and that's the way it stayed in the 50's and 60's?

COMER: Yes. Yes. The . . . this . . . this heavy burley that was sold years ago in filter cigarettes has always been a good [inaudible]. In fact, when I first went in the warehouse business they liked the bottom of the stalk, which are called the flyings. It was thin tobacco. And now anymore, it's . . . it's the least desirable. They just really don't care for that type of tobacco anymore.

KLEE: Well, there weren't any big changes for . . . for the warehousemen during that . . .

COMER: No.

KLEE: . . . during that . . . those three decades? Fifties, 60's . . .

COMER: No.

KLEE: . . . the program really didn't change that much?

COMER: No, there's not been much change except the marketing. They've marketed bales now, the last couple of years and .

KLEE: Now that's really been a change since the . . . in the 1980's.

COMER: Yeah, 1980's, that . . . that speeds up the selling and unloading and there's a little tendency to do what they do down south: put it in sheets. But so far, sheets haven't been too popular in Mason [inaudible].

KLEE: Now they're gonna . . . there is a support for sheets now.

COMER: Yes, yes there is a support price. But so many of the companies, they're . . . they . . . everything's so mechanical anymore and they have not had their . . . they're not geared up for sheets.

KLEE: I see. Right.

COMER: For instance, one company, in 1950, was working two shifts, ninety-six men. And now they're doing the same thing in one shift with eight men.

KLEE: Gee.

COMER: Isn't that something?

KLEE: Cuts out the labor . . .

COMER: Cuts out labor, that's right.

KLEE: The machines have come in and taken over.

COMER: Mechanized.

KLEE: What about the . . . let me just kind of start and take you through a warehouse season. What do you do before the season actually begins?

COMER: Well . . .

KLEE: In the warehouses?

COMER: . . . we . . . we try to keep friendly with our customers. Go and visit them, see how their crops are getting along, and generally they make plans about when they'll bring in their tobacco. We're officially opened around the tenth of November, and then we have sales ten days following . . . generally about the following Monday, the second week after that. And then we sell sixteen days before Christmas. And then we have a lay-off of two to three weeks.

KLEE: Now how is this established?

COMER: Let's the company get caught up on their [inaudible].

KLEE: Now the . . . you talked about cultivating your customers. You're in competition with other warehouses.

COMER: Oh yes. There's eleven groups at Maysville. Eighteen warehouses and they're operated by eleven.

KLEE: Now that's controlled by the . . . no one could come in and open up a warehouse just if they wanted to, is that right?

COMER: There's been some question about . . .

KLEE: How's that . . . how that . . .

COMER: . . . expanding, but that is a restraint of trade. We . . . we . . . one time, there were some rumors of a man opening up a new [inaudible] limited to the amount of sales, but you . . . you couldn't hardly do that. This is a free country. [chuckle] If a man wanted to open up a warehouse, there's nothing you could do. We have a Board of Trade and we have a supervisor, Gene Ender, and Dave Clark . . . Gene is the supervisor, and Dave . . . and they . . . they [inaudible] and they measure the floors and you're allotted so many baskets.

KLEE: According to your [inaudible].

COMER: . . . based on your square feet.

KLEE: I see.

COMER: And we worked it out so we have sales daily, and that way the farmer gets fast action, and I think we do a good job.

KLEE: Now that's how you determined how many days . . .

COMER: [to dog] Get away Boomer!

KLEE: [chuckle] That's how many days . . . that's how they decided like you were selling sixteen days before . . .

COMER: Yeah, sixteen days . . .

KLEE: Was based on the square footage and so forth.

COMER: Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

KLEE: Do . . .

COMER: No, no. Let me correct that. We . . . every . . . we sell three hundred and sixty baskets or piles an hour, and we sell three and a half hours, which is twelve, a hundred and . . . sixty . . .

KLEE: Yeah, something like that.

COMER: . . . per buyer and that's thirty-seven hundred . . . that's three sets of buyers . . . that's thirty-seven hundred baskets per day. So we . . . we know how much baskets are allowed in each warehouse, so they can determine pretty much several days where the buyers are gonna be, and they can . . . they can plot the movement of the buyers.

KLEE: Now this Board of Trade does that?

COMER: The Board of Trade does that. The supervisors.

KLEE: That's actually where the . . .

COMER: A good day, a good day we'll sell in Maysville a million and a half pounds.

KLEE: That's for all the warehouses?

COMER: For all the warehouses [inaudible] a million and a half. So in the sixteen days, we generally have somewhere around twenty-four or five million before Christmas. Last year was the biggest year Maysville ever had. We sold forty . . . forty-nine million pounds, and that has exceeded any previous years by about three million.

KLEE: I see.

COMER: And that's . . . this figure doesn't show some excess tobacco that . . . about seven million was excess after the market . . .

KLEE: After the . . .

COMER: . . . the market was over. So it was well in excess of fifty million. And with this dry weather and everything, the market may be down a half.

KLEE: Than where it was last year.

COMER: Last year, yeah.

KLEE: I . . . going back to the . . . the customers, how does a farmer . . . what . . . what do you think makes a farmer choose a warehouse?

COMER: Well, it's competitive and . . . it's the way you're treated and you . . . you establish a reputation as being hard-working and some knowledge of tobacco, and I've been in the business so long that we have a reputation of having good . . . good tobacco. We led the market last year with an average of one eighty-six, with the bull market only having one eighty-three, but now I'm not taking all credit for that. We just have customers that have good tobacco. And the . . . the buyers know that we have good tobacco, so they come looking for it. We . . . we get . . . we . . . if they don't strip the market, we're lucky. They always get [inaudible] and some of the bigger warehouses, they . . . they have to take all kinds and some . . . some of those all kinds are not too good. We're a little pick-ish.

KLEE: Okay. You don't handle quite as many pounds?

COMER: No, we're . . . we don't handle many pounds because we don't have the room, but we . . . we go in for . . .

KLEE: Quality?

COMER: . . . quality instead of quantity.

KLEE: Now what . . . you said you . . . you know, you had to be a hard worker and so forth, what do you have to do for the farmer? Do you unload their tobacco?

COMER: Unload it, weight it, and each . . . each tobacco farmer has a . . . a card. And the market . . . as soon as it's sold, it's recorded on his card, and like his base was eleven thousand one hundred pounds, he's allowed to tell . . . sell ten percent more than that, which would make his gross base about twelve thousand two hundred. Then when he gets over that, it's red card and the government takes about $1.30 a pound, so hardly anybody sells the red crop. They just take it home with them or something. Sometimes they can lease it from other farmers and that way . . .

KLEE: Sure . . .

COMER: . . . [inaudible] sell it.

KLEE: Now you have to keep count of that?

COMER: Oh yes. The marking card is in our position, in our possession and we have a warrant writer there from the ASCS office and they . . . they watch those cards, and any violation, they . . . they soon find it.

KLEE: Now that writer for those cards, is there one of those at each warehouse?

COMER: Each warehouse, there's . . . there's ASCS and there's about six of them and they go . . . we can't have a sale without a warrant writer. It's necessary. Can't issue checks until we get their okay.

KLEE: Okay, so you unload it and take track of it, and so forth.

COMER: [inaudible] auction and . . .

KLEE: Now during the actual auction process, how can you help the farmer then?

COMER: Well, we would . . . may point out to the buyers that it's an excellent crop . . . crop of tobacco, and, you know, maybe say something about [inaudible] been selling here for years and try to help him. Basically it's . . . it's our showmanship, but . . . because the buyers are gonna buy what they want, no matter what you say or do [inaudible].

KLEE: Now a lot of farmers you deal with, some of them probably have leased the tobacco and so forth.

COMER: Yes.

KLEE: Would you even . . . I think warehousemen probably even make adjustments as far as payment, don't they?

COMER: Well, sometimes . . . a farmer will process . . . he'll need the money to buy a lease, and . . . but that's all handled at the local ASC office. We sometimes will advance the money to buy the lease and then of course we take it out of his check.

KLEE: Sure.

COMER: [inaudible]

KLEE: You don't make payments . . .

COMER: No.

KLEE: . . . directly to the banks, then . . .

COMER: No. No.

KLEE: What's your relationship . . . now, auctioneers, where do . . . where do they come from?

COMER: They're ninety percent of the southern market [inaudible] control.

KLEE: Now . . .

COMER: I don't know . . .

KLEE: . . . who are they employed by?

COMER: The . . . warehouse.

KLEE: They are employed by the warehouse.

COMER: We . . . we are . . . we pay them a dollar and ten cents, I think it is, a thousand pounds. Last year . . . last year they . . . there was three auctioneers and they . . . they paid them about six- . . .

[End Tape #1, Side #1]

[Begin Tape #1, Side #2]

KLEE: This is side two of a tape with Francis Comer. You were talking about the auctioneers and how you pay them. Now what is . . . what is the relationship of, say, the warehouse and the auctioneer? Can you try to affect you . . . help your customer by talking to the auctioneer or . . .

COMER: The auctioneer works primarily for the warehouses. We . . . if the auctioneer doesn't cooperate, we get a new auctioneer. He . . . he . . . when tobacco's scarce, he has to allocate it and it . . . he's got to take care of everybody without getting them mad and it's . . . calls for a little . . . little . . .

KLEE: Diplomacy?

COMER: . . . diplomacy there, yeah.

KLEE: Now when you're talking about allocating, you're talking about going to the different dealers . . .

COMER: Yeah, going to the companies. You go . . . you go to the big companies first and then you let the dealers [inaudible], and you've to keep everybody happy.

KLEE: Well now how does he know how to do that?

COMER: Well, he . . . that's his training. Yeah, that's experience. He gets it from down south and he . . . he divides them up pretty well. Course they'll fuss at them some, but on the whole, all auctioneers have been very satisfactory. We've had no trouble with them.

KLEE: Now what about the buyers? What's the relationship of the warehouse and the buyers?

COMER: Well, we try to keep good will and keep them happy.

KLEE: You do that by trying to give them the kind of tobacco you want?

COMER: Yeah, and sometimes they get a pile of tobacco they don't want and we'll take it off their hands [inaudible]. We favor each other. They favor us and we do things for them.

KLEE: Now when . . . when you just mentioned that, they might have bought a pile they didn't want, was that because . . .

COMER: [inaudible]

KLEE: . . . they found out the company didn't want it or . . .

COMER: Well, they just . . . an error in judgment. you're selling six a minute and you can . . . in some cases, you'll get one that you really shouldn't have. So . . .

KLEE: Yeah.

COMER: . . . generally we say well, we'll take it. And that . . .

KLEE: What happens . . .

COMER: . . . that's if they're young, inexperienced. They . . . they appreciate those things.

KLEE: Yeah. That happen pretty frequently?

COMER: Not too often. A couple times a sale maybe.

KLEE: Buyers are pretty . . .

COMER: Yeah.

KLEE: . . . pretty proficient in what they're doing?

COMER: Yes they are. They . . . they learn fast and . . . but in my forty-five years, when I first started as sales manager, the buyers not only would tobacco, but they would see that their competitors paid as much as they did. See what I mean? They didn't want him to purchase any tobacco any cheaper than they . . . so you . . . you've always had some steady bidding. And that was for price support. But price support has knocked that out. Generally they only give a dollar or two above the price support and sometimes they divide you up a little. One will take one, and another company will take another, but . . . before price supports, it was more of a free and open market.

KLEE: Yeah, and the auctioneer really had to have a little more skill as far as bidding up . . .

COMER: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And a good smart auctioneer knew the high and low of every . . . every company's grade and he was . . . is . . . it was his advantage and the warehouse advantage to get the high . . . high money on each grade.

KLEE: Now [inaudible] back there when you were talking about how the . . . how the farmers actually ran out the buyers one time, I guess the price was pretty well established at the first sale or so, isn't it?

COMER: Yes. It . . . there's a lot of . . . it's like playing poker. It's . . . the first deal around, you kind of feel each other out to see where the strength is. The first day or two, they're establishing the price and by the middle of the week, like it starts on Monday, they pretty much know what they're doing. It generally goes up a dollar or two the first day.

KLEE: Yeah. Now you were telling me about the season. Let me just . . . you said the season usually . . . you-all officially opened on November 10. When do you start taking tobacco?

COMER: No, that's when we receive tobacco.

KLEE: Oh I see.

COMER: We generally open . . . the . . . the Monday two weeks . . . about . . . generally the Monday of Thanksgiving.

KLEE: Thanksgiving.

COMER: That . . . yeah, that . . .

KLEE: Right. But you won't . . . you don't take tobacco before like the tenth of November?

COMER: No. The reason we don't, tobacco drifts so, and they'll arrange with the companies any tobacco received before the official weight date is [inaudible] over.

KLEE: I see. And then you have that sixteen day sale before Christmas?

COMER: That's right.

KLEE: And then, when's the after-Christmas break?

COMER: Generally the Monday after Thanksgiving.

KLEE: Or New Year's?

COMER: New Year's I meant. Monday after New Year's.

KLEE: And how many days . . . it runs until you . . .

COMER: It runs until the tobacco's completely . . . generally it's about two weeks of pretty heavy marketing of tobacco after New Year's, and then it begins to lessen and we take off . . . we have three sets of buyers and one week we'll take off a set, and then the following week, we'll be down to just one set to finish up the market.

KLEE: I see. Now like the market stays open longer.

COMER: Yes they do. They do stay open.

KLEE: That's just because there's more tobacco coming in there?

COMER: Yeah, that's . . . it gets . . . well we . . . we find that quite . . . economics . . . we can't stay open for what little tobacco's left in this area, so we close. And some of the late farmers . . . why, gets them from all over the state and it makes a pretty good market for them because . . .

KLEE: It lasts so long?

COMER: They're . . . they're . . . they . . . they're drawing from the whole state.

KLEE: Now, what the . . . you mentioned the economics of it. The reason that you can is because you're paying the . . . the auctioneer and . . .

COMER: Yeah. Well, the auctioneer [inaudible] that you . . .

KLEE: Yeah, you have to watch . . .

COMER: And we got regular hands and everything.

KLEE: Now, your warehouse is . . . like you said, it's not one of the bigger ones, but what kind of employees do you have to have during the season?

COMER: Well, we have these people . . . we used to have tobacco graders that would sort the load when it was hand-tied, but anymore we don't need them so much. We need good strong boys to get it off the truck and put it on the pallets and baskets and [inaudible]. And really, we . . . we'll sacrifice knowledge for . . . for muscles a little. [chuckles] And this baled tobacco's all right, but I really think that the buyers don't have as good a look at a pile of bales as they did a basket of hand-tied. But see, I'm old-fashioned. I'm not . . .

KLEE: [chuckle] Yeah, the market's just about totally gone to bales now.

COMER: Oh, yes. Last year, it was well over eighty percent.

KLEE: Um, hmm. Yeah. What about . . . are there . . . what about some of the of the special cases? Now, is there . . . I know there's some companies, I think, sometimes that want a special type of tobacco, and [inaudible] . . .

COMER: You know we had . . . we had a nice order last year from the Germans. They wanted some hand-tied tobacco and we found [inaudible] down in the edge of [inaudible]. They had about twenty-one thousand. And we got them $1.94 average for that tobacco, but they'd taken a world of pains with it, and it was a German order and . . . and purchased [inaudible] Tobacco Company, and they stipulated it be hand-tied.

KLEE: Oh I see.

COMER: But that's . . . they don't buy too much of it.

KLEE: What about . . .

COMER: [inaudible] four or five million pounds in this area. In several markets.

KLEE: Um, hmm. What about the . . . can [inaudible] really tell a difference if they take pains with the tobacco?

COMER: Well, they tell me that they can't . . . this baling goes up so fast that they can't afford to hand-tie it anymore. It was a question . . .

KLEE: Well, I meant as far as the quality of the leaf, even in the bales.

COMER: Well, they . . . they're supposed to keep it all one kind and they . . . they do a good job of it, too. We'll . . . I find that ninety-five to ninety-six percent of the farmers are honest. There's always a few rogues in every business [chuckles] but most of them, they wanna give value for value; they wanna put it up so they get the high dollar, and they feel like they should split it up so the man buying it will get his full value.

KLEE: From the years that you've been out on the market, have you seen . . . what . . . what about the quality of the tobacco? Do you think it's . . .

COMER: Oh, they definitely . . . they . . . definitely . . .

KLEE: [inaudible]

COMER: . . . the farmers don't take the pride in it that they did when I first started. They used to take so much time in sorting it and grading it and tying it up. And it's . . . it's got to be sort of a commodity . . . something that . . . and the companies sort of fostered that too by . . . some years they'll pay a good price for about anything and everything, and then other years when the crop's big, they get a little pick-ish, but definitely they . . . the pride and the workmanship has declined.

KLEE: Is . . . is . . . does any of that have to do with the fact that maybe there's . . . you know, there's not as many? You got people raising bigger crops?

COMER: That's right. That's right. And the . . . the small man has been taken over by the bigger. It's . . . the . . . there's a lot of big allotments in . They have to handle it fast. And one thing about tobacco. It's . . . you can't ride on tractor seat. It's just a lot of hard hand labor. It's sweat and toil. And it don't lend itself [chuckles] to being mechanized like lots of corn and soybeans and things. But it pays off. It's . . . last year, at twenty-four hundred pounds . . . it grossed thirty-six or -seven hundred dollars per acre, and there's nothing else that can touch that.

KLEE: No. Not in this area.

COMER: Not around here.

KLEE: What about . . . uh-huh. What about the warehouse business? You said that one of the fellas that was in with you originally was one of the people that . . . that started the warehouse.

COMER: In 1908 they started the . . . previous to that, the farmers would . . . they had kind of stations where you would take your tobacco and put it in a barrel, a hogshead. And then you would haul that to Maysville and sometimes you would sell it to a speculator or dealer. Then it was loaded on a boat and taken to , and they had a hogshead market there. Also in , and a lot of tobacco went by river. But that was slow, very slow getting money, and this . . . this loose leaf system that was established in 1908 and it's been here now for near . . .

COMER: . . . seventy-five years.

KLEE: Sure. I was told that, at one time, you know, there might have been dealers that actually went out to the farm.

COMER: That's right. They called . . . they bought it in the barns. And they . . . sometimes they made money and sometimes they lost money. And it was a gamble. It was . . . they looked at tobacco that was . . . before it was stripped. Maybe just looked in the barn . . .

KLEE: Oh I see, hanging in the barn?

COMER: Yeah, hanging in the barn.

KLEE: Now this . . . this wasn't in our time period, though?

COMER: Not in my time. That was a little before my time. That was more . . . more in the hogshead days. They would buy it . . . going . . . a good price for tobacco in those days was about ten cents a pound. [inaudible] if you got . . . course World War I jumped it up to about a dollar a pound, and then after World War I, it went back to about fifteen cents [inaudible]. And . . .

KLEE: I've didn't really get into too much detail on cost, and I know . . . you know, that varies from year to year. But about what does it cost a farmer to sell his tobacco?

COMER: It varies a little according to warehouse. We're about as cheap as any of it. We . . . we don't charge for weighing it and we . . . we get five and a quarter percent of the gross, and then if it's baled, we rebate the farmer three dollars. We . . . we roughly get about six dollars . . . six dollars per hundred for selling it.

KLEE: Now how has that varied over the years? Has that . . . has that . . .

COMER: Oh, it's much higher. It's much higher. The first year I was in the warehouse business, we got seventy-five cents a hundred. Now we get . . . we get . . . basically we get about nine dollars . . . course we're giving back some . . . but it's gone up approximately ten times. But on the other hand, tobacco's advanced ten times.

KLEE: Sure. Right.

COMER: We would . . .

KLEE: It's gone up . . .

COMER: . . . the first year . . . eighteen cents and now it's $1.80. So the warehouse charges and the price of tobacco are pretty much in . . .

KLEE: Consistent.

COMER: . . . yeah, they're in order.

KLEE: Uh-huh, I see. What . . . how does the . . . this no-net cost thing now that went into effect last year, what has that taken out of the farmers?

COMER: Well, they took off a dollar to process tobacco, and . . . and then they took another fifty-five cents off for the graders. The farmers pay for the grading. And there's always . . . seems like there's always something being taken out of a man's check. This year there was . . . there was . . . down south, and it's been rumored that they might charge . . . take out seven cents a pound here and that is gonna be terrible. But we have a bright spot. In this dry weather, my friend that has this tobacco in storage tell me that the pool has sold about fifty-five percent of last year's crop.

KLEE: Gee.

COMER: And that's excellent, and maybe before the market opens, they'll sell another twenty or thirty percent. So being that they won't have much tobacco on hand, we're hoping that they'll not pick up that . . .

KLEE: Take up . . .

COMER: . . . that it may be back to a dollar. We can stand a dollar, but we certainly don't want no seventy cents.

KLEE: Now at what stage does the farmer pay that? When he . . .

COMER: That's taken out of his check. That's on the sheet.

KLEE: Now do you have to handle that?

COMER: Oh yes. We send that in. We got . . . [inaudible].

KLEE: I see. So you have to . . .

COMER: We have to do a lot of bookkeeping.

KLEE: That's one . . . that's one . . .

COMER: And never get paid for it. I mean there's no compensation for it. That's some of the expense of the business.

KLEE: As the . . . when the . . . when the tobacco sells, you have to give the farmer a check . . .

COMER: Yeah.

KLEE: . . . and then you take off your fee . . .

COMER: Yeah.

KLEE: . . . and then the government's fee. That about takes care of it? Those three?

COMER: Yeah, that's right. And the charge for grading, fifty-five cents.

KLEE: That was one group of people I didn't ask you about, and what your relationship is with them. What about the graders? Can you . . .

COMER: Well I've . . . I've . . . the grading system in Maysville in excellent. We've had . . . over a period of years, they've come and gone and they have all been efficient and helpful to the farmer. I have nothing but praise for the government graders. I've seen . . . there's some better than others. All of them were sincere and tried . . . they were painstaking and some of them were just occasionally a little more knowledgeable, but they . . . they were honest and trustworthy.

KLEE: Now if you see a farmer's tobacco that you think's not been graded correctly, is there anything you can do about that?

COMER: Oh yes, we can summon the head grader and review it. And sometimes it doesn't sell well. We've been pretty lucky rejecting it, taking a chance on maybe getting a higher sale the next day.

KLEE: Now, tell me about that process. That's something that a lot of a farmers do and what . . . what are the limits to that?

COMER: Well, during . . . you . . . you reject it and . . . and you try to get it on as quick as you can and used to reweigh it. It's pretty much [inaudible], same weight.

KLEE: So when you reject it, you just don't accept whatever they bid for it . . .

COMER: That's right.

KLEE: . . . and then try to sell it the next day or later . . .

COMER: Put new tickets on it. Put new tickets on showing the previous pounds and then it's presented to the buyers a second time.

KLEE: Now the actual day of the auction, does the warehouseman walk down the line with the buyer?

COMER: Yes, I was gonna say . . . the sales manager goes along next to the auctioneer and he . . . he asks for a certain price, generally a dollar or two above the support price. Now when I first started in the business, we had no support price. So the auctioneer depended on the sales manager to give him a starting bid. And I was the youngest starter around . . . sales manager around here, and once in a awhile I would . . . couldn't come up with a bid, and . . . there was an auctioneer, a little fellow from down south, and he'd look at me and say, "Have a chair." [chuckles] They couldn't come [inaudible] "Go sit down." [chuckle] Yeah, have a chair. So when he'd sit down in his chair, I had to come up with something.

KLEE: Come up with something.

COMER: Yeah, I'd come up with something. Have a chair.

KLEE: Now do you . . . do warehousemen ever buy tobacco?

COMER: Yes, occasionally. Some warehouses . . . our warehouse is small. We try to sell it to the farmers but some of them actually engage in . . . that's got its pros and cons. Some . . . some times the buyers resent that you bid against them.

KLEE: You bid against them.

COMER: That's right. I find that . . . we're commission merchants. We're out there to sell it. If the farmer don't like the way it sells, we'll try it again. But we don't buy.

KLEE: Right.

COMER: Yes.

KLEE: You really . . . considering all the people that you have to deal with, you really kind of gotta be a politician and . . .

COMER: Yes you do.

KLEE: . . . and PR person.

COMER: Yes you do. You have to be friendly. There's no place for . . . for a grouch.

KLEE: Now on the . . . for example, the number of . . . or the number of pounds that have sold over the years, say between 1938 and 1980, have . . . have the . . . has production actually increased, or has it remained pretty constant or . . .

COMER: Well, what's happened that the farmers get so much more, the per acre, they have doubled the weight. And in 1934, when established the tobacco quotas, everybody had to turn in a history of their farm the three . . . previous three years. And [chuckle] the highest precinct was Mays Lick, which is supposed to have the best land, and it run about a thousand pounds. But there was areas in the county where the tobacco was only seven or eight hundred pounds per acre. But commercial fertilizer and knowledge and tobacco seed . . . I'd say averaged twenty-four or -five hundred pounds per acre last year. But that . . . that's just everything. We . . . we used to get thirty bushels of corn to the acre and now we get a hundred and fifty. Everything is . . .

KLEE: Done the same.

COMER: Yeah. Production has moved up.

KLEE: So you . . . you've seen more pounds actually handled?

COMER: Oh yes.

KLEE: Course now, with the poundage system, it's gonna remain . . .

COMER: [inaudible] yeah, they pretty much know what they got. They can estimate.

KLEE: When you . . . when you go through the warehouse now, and there's tobacco on the floor, is it physically different than it was, you know, over the last two, three decades? Has . . . has the . . .

COMER: Well, I . . . I . . .

KLEE: . . . the method changed?

COMER: . . . thought tobacco in hand-tied would make . . . displayed better and looked nicer. The bales, you can . . . you can have good bales and bad. But it's not as noticeable as the quality.

KLEE: Well, what about the actual . . . are the leaves bigger and heavier . . .

COMER: Oh yes, definitely. They're . . . the leaves . . . I'd say a leaf of tobacco is a third larger than it was when I . . .

KLEE: And they're . . . they're raising heavier tobacco?

COMER: Raise heavier tobacco. And we have a . . . something called MH30 that tends to increase the weight [inaudible] suckers from growing. All those have been very helpful.

KLEE: What about . . . what about the companies and dealers, the buyers? Are they looking for something different than they did five years ago, ten years ago?

COMER: Well back in . . . when I first started, the . . . the buyers were pretty much on their own. They were out there to buy tobacco, and like I said, to see that their competition couldn't buy it cheaper than they did. But anymore, I find the buyers are dominated by the . . . by the supervisors. They're . . . they're ridden pretty hard. They . . . they're supervised once or twice a day and it's . . . they're under a tight rein. Told what to do and they . . . they don't have as much freedom to operate as they did forty-five years ago.

KLEE: What about warehouses in the future? Do . . . are . . .

COMER: I don't know. I don't know. It's . . . I'll tell you about tobacco. We . . . we are persecuted. [chuckle] We're an endangered species. I mean, everybody fusses at us. But I'll say this: there's a hundred million automobiles on the road, pumping this old diesel black smoke in the air and they've been . . . I've read this and then there's the smog in Four hours out on the streets in is the same as smoking two packs of cigarettes.

KLEE: Yeah.

COMER: You heard that?

KLEE: Yeah . . . similar kinds of things, right.

COMER: And I . . . I don't think tobacco . . . they're blamed for everything, but I think if we had horse and buggies, you wouldn't have near very much lung cancer.

KLEE: [inaudible] [chuckle] What about the . . . as . . . there have been a lot of critics of different aspects of the tobacco program about, you know, the supports. Have the warehousemen been picked upon in any . . .

COMER: Well they . . .

KLEE: . . . they haven't been singled out very much.

COMER: No we . . . they . . . course the farmers, they bring it to us and they . . . they kind of think that it's all gravy, but we . . . we make just a reasonable profit. I . . . I wouldn't wanna build a warehouse now. And the costs . . . [inaudible] in Maysville, ninety percent of the warehouses have been here thirty, forty years. They're . . . they're . . . they were built in cheaper times. It's a business.

KLEE: So that's investment's not as big. But you think most farmers are pretty well satisfied with . . .

COMER: That's right. They . . . we just . . . when I first went in the business, there were a lot of them taking their tobacco to and they seemed to get more money for it. But price support and you . . . you can do as well in Maysville as anywhere. You . . . you can't afford to go . . . haul your tobacco fifty, sixty miles . . .

KLEE: Couple cents . . .

COMER: . . . for a cent or so. Make two or three trips a year. You're better off at home.

KLEE: When you look at the list of markets, and you see the different averages they all brought, and sometimes you can see a . . . you know, a four, five cent difference, is that mostly . . . does that mostly relate back to the quality of the leaf?

COMER: Yeah, that's the quality in that area. Sometimes the tobacco isn't quite as good. Some markets . . . some markets just have . . . last year, they tell me they got a bad crop. Last year, the best tobacco in this area was in Cynthiana. But they've had unusually dry weather and they said they got a bad one this year. But last year, they had a good one. But we at Maysville, knocks along at a pretty good price. We . . . we sell right along with , and . . .

KLEE: Well the fact is . . .

COMER: [inaudible], we have a right smart volume.

KLEE: Such a big market.

COMER: When you get a volume, you don't . . .

KLEE: Starts to average out a little bit.

COMER: [inaudible] inferior tobacco.

KLEE: Do you have much business across the river or very far off?

COMER: Some. Some. Principally, we sell Mason and . That . . . we've had good contacts in Bracken. And other warehouses well . . . you hire kind of trade men, and some of them have more . . .

KLEE: [inaudible]

COMER: . . . [inaudible]. Ripley has very strong competition. [inaudible] pretty good job.

KLEE: You've mentioned that your warehouse gets a lot of tobacco . . .

COMER: That's right.

KLEE: . . . are there some other ones that say, attract more business from or . . .

COMER: Well, we have some people working for us. What's wrong with that dog? [pause in tape]

KLEE: There's . . . there's no major changes foreseen in the . . . in the warehouseman trade in the next few years? You-all . . . there's nothing much you can do mechanically or . . .

COMER: No.

KLEE: . . . as far as setting up differently?

COMER: No. No, I don't think so. We've gone to bales now and the tobacco companies have taken the machinery and geared it to handle bales.

KLEE: For bales, uh-huh.

COMER: Very . . .

KLEE: And they've gotta be the dominant form for awhile.

COMER: Gotta be the dominant form for awhile.

KLEE: Well . . .

COMER: And in my experience, government support price, and filter cigarettes have been the greatest help . . .

KLEE: The biggest changes, uh-huh.

COMER: And the best help for burley tobacco.

KLEE: What . . . what do you think might happen . . . course the warehousemen will just have to adapt I'm sure, but what might happen if we . . . if the government support would . . . would leave or . . .

COMER: Chaos. I would hate it because there would be a time that you'd get a pretty decent price, but they would go back to the time before we had government support. The poor fella that'd sell when the barrels were filled, he would get . . . he would get [inaudible].

KLEE: Oh, okay. It's like the early years you showed us.

COMER: Yeah, the early years.

KLEE: Went down to eighteen, to thirteen, back up to twenty-eight . . .

COMER: Yeah, that's right.

KLEE: Just no prediction. I appreciate you talking to me.

[End Tape #1, Side #2]

[End of Interview]