[Begin Tape #1, Side #1]
KLEE: The following is an unrehearsed interview with Mr. Lawrence Pope of . . .
I think you said Kennetsville?POPE: Kernersville.
KLEE: . . . Kernersville, right outside of by John Klee for the Kentucky Oral
History Commission. The interview is being conducted on and we're at the Kentucky King Warehouse where Mr. Pope has a small apartment while he's up here in during the tobacco market. Tell me how you got into the tobacco business, a little bit about your background.POPE: I was raised on a tobacco farm, just out of , and after finishing high
school, the farm wasn't large enough to support my father and myself both, so I secured a job with one of the major tobacco companies.KLEE: Which one was that?
POPE: American Tobacco Company.
KLEE: And what did you do in that capacity? Buy? Were you a buyer?
POPE: After a couple years, I was trained to buy. And then I bought tobacco with
them for seventeen years.KLEE: Is that how you found your way to ?
POPE: That's correct. I was in Maysville in two different stays. I came to
Maysville in the early 1950's as a factory foreman and came back later as a tobacco buyer in the 60's.KLEE: Now the factory foreman here, that was just . . . that was where they
handled the tobacco for American? Or what did . . . what did they do there? Did they process some here?POPE: No, we just handled the tobacco. We hauled it off the warehouse floors and
packed it into hogsheads and shipped it back to the redrying plants, which at that time, were in , and .KLEE: I see. Okay. And then the second stint you had up here?
POPE: Came back in . . . in the mid- . . . early . . . mid- to early 60's as a
tobacco buyer for American Tobacco Company.KLEE: When did you become interested in getting into the warehouse business?
POPE: Well, I was continually interested in it through my tenure with American
Tobacco Company.KLEE: I guess that kind of thing's a big investment. Did you start in ? Did you
start up here?POPE: Started in , and course I had, as a sideline, I had several small
companies. I raised tobacco all during those years as a sideline, when I was employed with American Tobacco Company. Had a little trucking company one time as a sideline, and was able to muster together enough money to go in the warehouse business in .KLEE: Now that was . . . and when did that start? Your warehouse business?
POPE: Well, it's been twenty years ago, it would be about 1966 . . . `67 . . .
`66-`67, along that time.KLEE: And then when did you invest here in ?
POPE: I been here seven years. The first year we came here, we leased this
warehouse from Clyde Barber, which we still lease it from Mr. Clyde Barber. Then three years ago . . . don't remember the date . . . we purchased the Burley Warehouse downtown, which was . . . we later lost . . . two years after that, we lost it to fire.KLEE: Now if . . . I'm interested in this whole . . . let me start with the
first investment with the leasing of this warehouse. The early 80's were not particularly terrible times for the tobacco, but it was . . . the future was a little bleak or, you know, we . . . the tobacco program was going through some problems. Did that scare you off? I guess it didn't, in any way. Come on . . . [pause in tape] My . . . my question was, how did you decide to get in, in this kind of volatile time?POPE: Well it . . . I had the tobacco business in , and as it was . . . as
demand was reducing some, we didn't have quite as large of crops. I felt like we needed to cover a longer period of time. We could use our equipment and people here in , and utilize them better, cause I knew we were . . . we was facing some little tougher times in the tobacco industry ahead. So that was what enticed us to come here.KLEE: So it was a way to maintain your personnel, not lose them, give them
longer employment and . . .POPE: Right.
KLEE: . . . and so forth.
POPE: And that's . . .
KLEE: After that fire, course I . . . I assume the building was insured somewhat
. . .POPE: Right, partially insured, but not near adequate enough to . . . to
rebuild. [chuckle]KLEE: Right. Well that was . . . that was the big question. It was different
buying an existing warehouse, but then the question of building a new one, I'm sure, was one that weighed heavily. What prompted you to go ahead and make that decision?POPE: The big decision on that was that we felt like we had to have a new
warehouse built and if we stayed in the tobacco business in Maysville, Kentucky, and we knew that it wouldn't . . . tobacco auctions definitely wouldn't pay for the investment in that, but we felt . . . we put the building in a real desirable location we felt like, and Maysville, was ready for a little more growth than it had in a long time. And of course we're also in the construction business in , and we built the building ourselves and have it available for lease to the manufacturers.KLEE: Well, I . . . kind of leads to the question, you know, people here locally
certainly are investing in the area, but it seems even . . . it's . . . it's just interesting that a . . . that a person whose residence, then, and background is in North Carolina would make that commitment to this area. To build a new building and make it available.POPE: Well we . . . a lot of things caused it to happen. I like the Maysville
area. I was here in the last [inaudible] five or six years, and I knew right many people here. And I felt like it was a good opportunity to . . . in the warehousing end to build the new building, and the . . . the local industrial commission and the town people, Chamber of Commerce and different town officials enticed us every way possible to invest in the . . . in this area.KLEE: Yeah. That was through the issuance of municipal bonds and any kind of . .
. those kind of things that could . . . could help you out.POPE: That's correct.
KLEE: How has that paid off? Course that warehouse is really physically removed
from all the other ones which are here in the . . . the east end of town. Have farmers . . . farmers are a conservative lot. Have they been pretty willing to bring the tobacco to a new location?POPE: Yeah, we been real pleased this year. Our business has increased over last
year about . . . little better than twenty percent with the crop being cut by six percent last year. And we feel like the hard work that we're doing, plus the new location and better facilities to sell tobacco in has contributed to this.KLEE: How does a person like yourself, and of course, you know again, you know
how farmers are, rather conservative. How have they chosen to . . . to sell with you as opposed to, you know, farmers that live here in the area? Has that been a problem for you? How do you . . . how do you attract your customers?POPE: No, it . . . it hasn't been that large a problem to us. We try to bring
highly qualified people that work the tobacco industry from the first of July all the way through this time, and a large part of the tobacco industry is . . . is handled in North Carolina, with the redrying plants being there, and we feel like that we can bring a little expertise to the area that possibly wasn't here in just a local warehouse.KLEE: Right. So what about . . . of course, you know, the warehousing business,
as far as competitiveness, do you think that the services you offer and so forth, that gives you at least a shot at customers or they've been . . . they've acclimated to you fairly well?POPE: Yeah, we're real pleased. They've . . . they've showed their appreciation
for what we're doing for the area. We try to invest what profits [inaudible] makes. Some years, no profits. But when we do make a profit, we try to invest a part of it back in the local area.KLEE: You kind of suggest that, with the building of a new building, that you
had plans for it other than just as a warehousing facility. How have . . . how has that developed? Or has it yet?POPE: We have shown it to . . . to several different companies, and they . . .
there's been a lot of interest in it, and the Department of Commerce in has showed it to some customers . . . Chamber of Commerce here, so that we have brought some people to Maysville to look at the building.KLEE: Yeah. You're not discouraged that nothing has . . . positive has developed
yet? I mean, is that . . . when you're building a building like that, and you think, well if something happens in three years or four years or five years, it'll still be all right, or what kind of . . . what kind of thinking goes into your mind with that kind of thing?POPE: Well, we have a break-even proposition on the building selling tobacco.
It's not a profitable situation on it, we have a break-even situation. And it has attracted some users to the Maysville area. The building that are building a building now in the park behind us came to look at our building four different times.KLEE: Is that right?
POPE: Before they decided to . . . to build. Building didn't quite fit them.
Didn't quite suit their needs. But they wouldn't have come to the Maysville area looking at all had there not been something here to look at.KLEE: I see. That's interesting. I think I . . . I've asked you the questions
that are pertinent there. Let me . . . I wanted to ask you about your personnel and of course your crew too, goes through the same kind of calendar. A lot of people that are . . . know a little bit about tobacco here, don't realize there's so many out-of-state people that come and reside in areas and of course that's repeated all across the state, with Maysville, Lexington and . . . and the bigger markets. There's the buyers and the . . . and the . . . the auctioneers and so forth. Could you run me a little calendar of how your year runs, starting with the flue-cured market? Down in the south, when will they start putting out the tobacco down there?POPE: It'll be set in area, Georgia/Florida area, probably late March. And then
on up in the area, in early April, early to mid-April.KLEE: Are you still supervising some growing of tobacco?
POPE: I am in . . . in the area.
KLEE: Sure. Right.
POPE: Course in the area, we'll start setting tobacco there about the first of
May. And then we'll start selling tobacco there about the middle of August in the area. The Georgia/Florida area, we'll start selling tobacco about the . . . oh, of July.KLEE: Are your interests centered primarily in Winston-, in the area and here?
POPE: That's correct. and Maysville.
KLEE: Right. Now, you start selling tobacco in the middle of August down there.
POPE: That's correct.
KLEE: Course they harvest their tobacco differently, by pulling the leaves as
they become . . . or as it comes to the market to you differently. Where . . . where it's positioned on the plant, is that correct?POPE: Yes. Yes, the tobacco there is all . . . the leaves are pulled in the
field, leaving the stalk in the field. And the leaves are harvested as they get ripe from the bottom up. We usually . . . usually takes five to six weeks to harvest a crop.KLEE: How does that make the warehouseman's job? Harder or easier? You're
getting all the same kind of crop at the same time, don't you?POPE: Some, but not a whole lot. We have several more grades of flue-cured
tobacco than we do burley tobacco because of the . . . the mixture. One farmer might pull the first primings real heavy The next one might pull them light. And one of them might pull it before it gets ripe, so we have many more different grades in the flue-cured.KLEE: Are they bringing that to the market in sheets or baled or how does that
come in?POPE: It's all sewed in sheets there. Loose leaves, uh-huh.
KLEE: Your relationship with the buyers, now. Are some of the same buyers that
you deal with here, there too?POPE: Yes, many of the same buyers, and of course all the management, the
supervisors and top management of the tobacco companies . . .KLEE: Are the same?
POPE: . . . are the same.
KLEE: Course you had contacts with American. How . . . are those . . . were
those contacts valuable as a warehouseman? Or being a buyer, how did that . . . what kind of perspective did that bring to you as a . . . as a warehouseman then?POPE: Well it helped me very much to know the buyers outlook on the tobacco; as
far as the contacts or the personnel, that's not . . . not that helpful, but when I was with the tobacco company, I knew how they thought and their philosophy on what type tobacco they like to buy and how they like to see it handled, and this type of thing. It's been very valuable to me.KLEE: Right. What about the . . . the warehouseman's role in selling tobacco?
What . . . I . . . I've dealt with some other people, and I just wanna touch on this briefly with you, since I'm emphasizing the connection, but . . . you got it from two different perspectives. How do you . . . how do you handle buyers and auctioneers . . . or auctioners . . . auctioneers in . . . in trying to get the best price for the farmers?POPE: Well, to start with, we do everything possible to hire the . . . the best
auctioneers in the business. And we're fortunate in , I've got . . . I've employed the second world's champion, who won the championship the second year. And out here in Maysville, we've employed three that sells the whole market, which are all world champion auctioneers. And once we start the . . . the basket of tobacco or pallet of tobacco out here, we put a starting price on it with one of our experienced personnel that we think will . . . will be the high price, and then I stay in . . . in the sale and buy tobacco myself.KLEE: I was gonna ask you about that. Some warehousemen are more aggressive in
doing that. Course you have to . . . you're taking a risk on that. Most of that you'll put back on the market and try to sell again. How does that . . . is that . . . is that a pretty successful technique? Course that makes a lot of farmers happy, I think.POPE: That's right. I mean, that's where we feel like that we might have a
little edge on some people that don't buy any tobacco. We buy strongly and put it back on the market for resale. We lose money, probably more than we make money, but we're able to get the farmer a higher price for his tobacco and that's the bottom line. The better price we can get for the farmer, the more farmers will sell with us.KLEE: Right. Another connection I wanted to ask you about is about the auction
system itself. How successful has that been? You know, some farmers occasionally will complain that, you know, where it doesn't seem to really be an auction going on. There have been years where the prices haven't varied very much. How do you . . . you know, what do you . . . what do you say to those farmers that . . .POPE: Well, we feel like the auction system itself has been very successful over
the years, but when you get a real strong market, where the demand is real strong, the crop maybe is not quite large enough, then the companies will . . . all . . . all the tobacco, both the good quality and the poor quality, will be bringing the same price. But there always . . . always has been a top price on tobacco at auction. Now this year, we was able to break the top price from $1.61 to $1.63 by continuing to buy the very better piles. For the warehouse. A lot of that tobacco we sold back and lost a dollar a hundred. But before the season's over, the companies will increase to the $1.63.KLEE: What about your . . . the foreign buyers? Does . . . and of course,
they're buying . . . they buy through dealers, or someone is buying for them. Has that . . . what . . . you've got a different perspective than some people here just locally. Have you seen any differences over the last few years between the foreign buying in, say, flue-cured vs. burley, or . . .POPE: No, when you have the flue-, the foreign orders have been a little bit
larger in the last couple years than they were for . . . for previous years before that, both in the flue-cured and the burley. They're always a little heavier when you have a . . . a good crop. This crop of tobacco, 1983 . . . I mean, [chuckle] 1987-88 crop of tobacco is . . . is pretty poor quality. It's not desirable for the exporters. But we were still able, in the Maysville area, to get a larger percentage sold to the exporters due to our quality was a little above what it was in some of the central area.KLEE: Suggestions have been made, and I guess it's already been announced that
flue-cured quotas will be increased, and it looks like the burley might follow up on that. How do you feel about . . . course we've seen, like, a twenty percent price decrease in the last four years and almost a fifty percent decrease in the quota. That makes a warehouseman sure have some sleepless nights because both of those cut down on your, on your income. Do you think we've turned the corner on that, or what kind of . . . how does it look?POPE: Well, it's all supply and demand. Now there is . . . the increase we had
in the flue-cured, course is all tied to the formula that was passed by congress a couple years ago. The companies have to report to a private auditing firm on how much they intend to purchase next year. Then those totals are combined and the tobacco that's left in the pool, in the flue-cured, over a hundred million pounds is decreased from what the companies anticipate buying. And then the secretary, when we come up with that total, the Secretary of Agriculture has the authority, under the congressional act, to decrease the quota by three percent or increase it by three percent. In the flue-cured this year, the formula called for 9.8% increase, and the secretary lowered it by three percent. The burley, to finish answering your question on the burley side of it, the pool is getting much more of this tobacco than anybody anticipated in getting, and the pool, burley pool, a comfortable line for them is fifty million. So it'll be a . . . a decrease over the fifty million, and the large amount of tobacco that they've gotten at the tail-end of the season will affect what our quota will be.KLEE: But are you optimistic generally, then?
POPE: I think the formula will work. I think if . . . if the government bodies
will leave it alone now, I really think it'll work. Now we might have some six percent, ten percent increases one year, and then come back with a three or six [percent] cut the next year. But I think that's what the flexibility that it has will definitely help the tobacco program and stop some imports.KLEE: I interrupted you kinda in the middle of your chronology of events. You
will stay on the flue-cured market, then, until . . . when . . . when does that finish up? The end of July?POPE: No, we don't finish there until about the end of October.
KLEE: Right. July's when you begin about.
POPE: Right. Right.
KLEE: So the end of October, and that gives you what? About a three week split?
POPE: Well, the last couple of years, we've had a late crop in the Old Belt due
to dry weather in the area. And we only had just . . . we packed up one night and came out here the next day and started to work. We didn't have any time in between the markets.KLEE: Uh-huh. And then this market runs from Thanksgiving until about now?
POPE: That's correct. And a lot of times, on until February, first of February.
KLEE: Right. So you're . . . when do you have a chance to take a breath and make
sure everything's . . . count your . . . count your dollars and see how everything came out? I guess you have to do that all the way through?POPE: Yeah, you got to have good bookkeeping all the way, but we do. We finish
the season . . . like February and March are probably our two slowest . . . slowest months. Then under the designation program that the flue-cured operates in, we have to go back to contacting farmers at that time.KLEE: I see. As far as . . . they . . . oh, they designate a warehouse, is that right?
POPE: That's correct.
KLEE: Right.
POPE: And the designation, they have to make their determination was the ASCS
Office by April 15th each year, what warehouse they plan to sell their crop with.KLEE: So you're out trying to get customers early on, then?
POPE: That's correct.
KLEE: Cause after they've designated, that's more or less it?
POPE: Right.
KLEE: What was the . . . what was the purpose of that, and . . . and why haven't
they done a similar thing here? Is that . . .POPE: Well, we had such a blockage at the warehouses. We had long lines. Farmers
couldn't get to the warehouses. Plus, the real old warehouses with large square footage of space was earning more sales time, but in some cases, they were not the warehouses the farmers wished to sell with. Under the designation program, it doesn't make any difference what size your warehouse is, you get your daily allocation based on your percent of the farmers that designate your warehouse.KLEE: I see. How has the . . . how is the warehouse business as far as its
competitiveness, compared in . . . in vs. here?POPE: Probably not much difference. It's about as competitive one way or the
other. It . . . it helps the aggressive warehouses probably more on designation. It helps them to . . . to do a better job and it keeps . . . it keeps a stronger warehouse company to sell the tobacco regardless of whether he's got a small warehouse or a real large one.KLEE: You talked about your employees that stay with you, I guess, now
year-round. Is that correct?POPE: That's correct. We have other businesses that we utilize them in,
basically year-round.KLEE: So how many people are we talking about, that travel up this way at a
time? I guess it's . . . it varies?POPE: Well, our particular warehouse, we probably use . . . we probably bring,
oh, eight . . . people total, including myself. And then we probably hire thirty-five, forty people locally.KLEE: Locally, right. How . . . course the . . . as . . . as I mentioned to you
when we just met outside, this is a gypsy lifestyle. Your son's getting ready to leave here before long. How has that affected the family life? I guess it was something you got used to things with American?POPE: Yes, I started when I was seventeen years old with it, and of course, the
tobacco family . . . both, so to speak, the tobacco buyers for all of the companies . . . are used to working two markets and some of them even work three markets. Some of them will have to . . . have to work in the market in about thirty more days.KLEE: Right. Which is even a little later. You never went up that way? [inaudible]
POPE: Never . . . never went up that way, but it's kind of like any position in
a sales . . . sales job. [pause in tape?] edit the tape, you do do that, don't you?KLEE: No, what I do is I . . . I'll index it, so that if a researcher is trying
to find something, he can just go right to that part. If he was looking just for . . . if he wants to find out something about flue-cured, at some point we talked about that, he'll just go look at that. Did . . . have you been involved politically with . . . I know you . . . that term is kind of a loaded term. I was thinking on . . . on . . . I know locally you've had to talk to Chamber of Commerce people and the mayors and so forth about, you know, the building of your warehouse, but I was thinking more . . . have you been active at all in some of the controversy over the last six to eight years about the program? Have you been called on to do that? Write letters or . . . course I guess you're a member of the associations?POPE: Yes, I'm a member of all the associations. Course I'm a member of the
Burley Warehouse Association, and I'm now chairman of the board of Flue-Cured Warehouse Association. Last year I was president of the Flue-Cured Warehouse Association. So you've been called on, probably, to write letters and contact people and so forth?POPE: Yes, and we have many, many meetings between seasons from . . . from
February through July pertaining to the . . . the tobacco situation. And course I'm always in a position to represent the tobacco warehousemen and the tobacco farmers, along with our associates that op-, that . . . are meeting the companies. I can't think of the word I'm trying to say.KLEE: Oh, you've got . . . your board also has to deal with the companies as far
as coordination and so forth?POPE: That's correct. Any item that . . . that it gets . . . any item that
pertains to tobacco, we usually have the companies participate, and the farm groups, Farm Bureau, Grange and . . . and these groups and the tobacco warehousemen's group participating in joint meetings. Along with the politicians.KLEE: Course I've done some research at this way. How is the coordination down
there? A lot of people, let me just paint this little picture and see how you respond to it. A lot of outsiders don't realize that within the tobacco business, there's not always a unanimous opinion, that sometimes the farmers may not like the warehousemen, the warehousemen might not like the buyers and so on and so forth. How is that coordination . . . I know, when challenged, they pull together pretty well, but things are not as unified as a lot of outsiders might think.POPE: Well, in the last four or five years, the companies, the tobacco buyers
and the farmers has been on the . . . they thought the most on the same wavelength than at any time during my tenure in the tobacco business. And it's not near like it used to be. Your statements were correct, fifteen, twenty years ago, in the flue-cured. But the flue-cured is . . . is . . . disagreements are settled very easy and there's committees and organizations in place to sit down and talk about the problems and come to an agreement on how they . . . what kind of legislation the tobacco industry needs.KLEE: Two questions about farmers. There seems to be, from the literature, a lot
more leasing that goes on in the flue-cured area. I don't know if . . . you know, people that don't own the quotas. Is that . . . is that . . . is that just a stereotype, or something I've picked up, or is that true? And does that cause any special problems?POPE: Well, in the last few years, there's no leasing allowed in the flue-cured.
The pound . . . the tobacco allotments are sold off the farms. You can buy the allotment without buying the farms, and that's been a real step forward, to get the tobacco allotments in the hands of the growers.KLEE: So obviously that makes the grower more enthusiastic about the whole
program, now that he's . . . he's raising his own tobacco.POPE: Right. And he invests his money in . . . in the tobacco poundage, so you .
. . we're losing a little bit of our real small family farms by that happening, but there in return, we're getting a . . . probably a better quality tobacco grown and it . . . the farmer is a little solider [more solid] financially than he was back when we had the leasing, where he could lease for one year and give it up the next year.KLEE: That was the next line of questioning about farmers themselves. There's
some criticism about the way farmers handle tobacco and old-timers will tell you that the quality of tobacco's not the same as it once was, and so forth, and course you're in the middle there, between trying to represent the farmer and getting the best price; and at the same time, pleasing companies. I . . . I wanted you to respond to that, plus maybe say . . . make a comment about flue-cured and our burley tobacco growers up here, whether that's true.POPE: Well it's . . . part of it is true, but we sit in kind of a unique
position. The farmer will listen to the advice of his warehouseman a whole lot quicker than he'll listen to the advice of the buying company or maybe even some agriculture departments with the state. We . . . we find ourselves carrying a message to the farmer a lot of times for the companies, and the companies meet with us and . . . and really appreciate us getting the message to the farmers. We do feel that the farmers are definitely . . . every year, we can see them get a little more business oriented, and wanna . . . wanna do what they can to clean up their product and to market their product in the manner that the buying companies want it marketed.KLEE: Course the companies have to cooperate by giving those prices.
POPE: They do. And . . . and sometimes we as . . . representing the farmers, we
had a little disagreement, because if a crop is not handled good and, you know, not stripped . . . stripped very poorly at times, it'll bring about as much as the other. But supply and demand brings that on. If a company's got tobacco to buy, they gonna get the best tobacco they can for the price that they're paying for it.KLEE: Yeah. Again, I know you have to kind of be political about the way you
comment about our farmers and of course, your customers, but with . . . with farmers in . . . in . . . in North Carolina owning the allotments, are there as many . . . it seems to me one of the trends here . . . we have a lot of part-time farmers, people that work in town, so to speak, and then raise a crop on the side. Does that make them less careful about growing their tobacco, or is . . . is that true in both . . . both markets?POPE: I think the burley farmer, where they're . . . the part-time farmers
you're speaking of, are not, is not . . . they're not as knowledgeable of the changing trends as maybe the farmers are in our part of the country because our farmers have gotten larger. We don't have as many part-time farmers as we had before the allotments could be sold.KLEE: Okay. Gotta turn this over.
[End Tape #1, Side #1]
[Begin Tape #1, Side #2]
KLEE: This is side two of a tape with Mr. Lawrence Pope. We were talking about
the farmers and . . . and, you know, the quality of the crop. What kind of recommen-, well . . . you mentioned that you see more different grades in the flue-cured than you would here?POPE: That's correct, yeah, the flue-cured has more different grades of tobacco
in it than the burley does.KLEE: Are you suggesting to farmers, when they're receptive to it, to put their
tobacco in more grades?POPE: No, I think three grades is definitely a company recommendation, and my
recommendation for most of the burley crop. Some years, such as this year, two grades was acceptable. But anytime that it's stripped in one grade, it's gonna cost them some money.KLEE: On the presentation of tobacco in a warehouse, what . . . did the
transition from hand-tied to baled help you? Hurt you? How did . . . how did the warehousemen react to that?POPE: Oh, I think it definitely helped the farmer, the warehouse, and then the
buying companies [inaudible] from the bundles to the bales. It took a . . . excuse me, a couple years to get everybody used to putting it in the bales and how . . . how hard to press it and, you know, how important it was to keep the stems straight and this type thing. But I think it's definitely a much cheaper and much better system for the farmer, warehouseman, and buying company.KLEE: Everybody's pretty well agreed on that, now, too, even though in the
beginning, I guess, there was some . . . some complaining from, I guess, all quarters.POPE: That's correct. And too, by going to that, the companies had to make a
large investment in new equipment, new machinery when we went to the bales. And also the farmers had to make some investment in presses and different . . . different areas.KLEE: There's no trend for that in the flue-cured? Why do . . . I know we tried
sheets up here for awhile, and course they just about disappeared very quickly. Never really caught on.POPE: I understand several company tests made in the flue-cured on baling it,
the texture and nature of the flue-cured tobacco has more oil in it, more sugars, and they say it won't keep . . .KLEE: It just won't keep.
POPE: . . . in the bales. It just won't . . . won't keep at all; it'll decay.
KLEE: So they have to keep it with, I guess . . . the . . . the sheets allows, I
guess, more air to get to the tobacco and so forth.POPE: That's correct. And course the sheets, we have a maximum two hundred fifty
pounds per sheet.KLEE: Aren't they a lot harder for you to handle, though?
POPE: Not necessarily. We have the equipment to handle those, which we can
handle just as . . . just as cheap as we can the burley bales. They don't . . . the tobacco don't show up quite as good on the floor. It's a little messier in the warehouses than it looks in the warehouse with bales.KLEE: Right.
POPE: But the companies' equipment, they've got equipment that can handle the
bales, unloading and processing just like they do the sheets, so it's . . . from . . . from . . . from everybody's standpoint, I think the farmer, warehouseman, and company are much better off with sheets in the flue-cured and bales in the burley.KLEE: I know that you kind of followed the example of the tobacco companies in .
. . in that, in a way, you've diversified your own interests. You talked about how you have some construction equipment and, you know, the building and so forth. And your family's involved in the business. How do you . . . how do you weigh tobacco in . . . in the total relation to the things you do? Are you . . . are you retreating a little bit from tobacco? Do you still think that's gonna be the core of your business, or . . . you know, what kind of personal plan do you do?POPE: Well we . . . we really do about like the company's done in the last ten,
fifteen years. We still lean on tobacco heavily, but we've diversified, but just in a small way from what the companies have. And we feel like it's . . . it's healthy. The tobacco is still profitable to us overall, and yet our other businesses tie in with tobacco. We use our labor and equipment that we use in tobacco, we use it in our construction business, and in some of these buildings that we build and lease to manufacturers, it still ties in with tobacco.KLEE: Have you done the same thing in , or tried to? I mean, is anybody
utilizing the buildings there? I mean, do you have any that have two purposes? The tobacco in part of the season and . . . and other purposes in other times?POPE: We don't have many buildings there with . . . with the two purpose, but we
do have some buildings that sold tobacco in for a few years and then converted them to leased buildings and built others and sold tobacco in them.KLEE: I see. And you're trying to . . . the . . . the plan up here was maybe to
kind of try to repeat that?POPE: That's correct.
KLEE: Was . . . you didn't take any other options or anything. Was there . . .
were there talks of two buildings at one time, or . . .POPE: We do have an option on seven more acres of land, adjoining this building.
And if we should lease this building to a manufacturer or warehousemen distributors, we would . . . we would build . . . probably build another building just like this one.KLEE: I see. Let me end the interview by . . . by addressing an issue, and of
course the health issue's been a big deal to people and so forth. I . . . in , at one point, if you were a tobacco farmer, you know, in the tobacco business, you were very seldom challenged. But now even in the tobacco states, there seems to be challenges to individuals. Are you ever challenged as being a tobacco entrepreneur and how do you respond to that?POPE: Well, naturally, we always hear from . . . it's always discussed, but my
response to it is, if you spend the . . . the millions of dollars that's been spent on research from the health organizations in this country on any product, you're probably gonna find a health hazard to any of the products. So the . . . the tobacco industry has really stood up for a lot of controversy and of course, naturally, all of us know that tobacco's not gonna do anything for you except give you pleasure. You know, it's a pleasure product. But whether it hurts you or not, it still has to be . . . has to be resolved.KLEE: From a personal viewpoint though, there's not . . . course I've even
encountered just in doing this project . . . when I say I'm doing a research project on tobacco, I get kind of a funny look. You don't . . . you haven't found any personal with friends, or you don't find yourself having to defend your business in any way?POPE: No, not . . . not anyway whatsoever, so far as defending it.
KLEE: Okay. What about the future as . . . we talked about whether this was a
turn-around year with the raising quotas in both markets. And I know when you build these buildings, you're . . . you're looking at depreciation and how much money has to go into it and how many years you're gonna be involved. You don't . . . when you . . . when you make these investments, you see enough return over a long period of time . . . in other words, what is your view about the . . . how endangered this . . . this business is? Or is it endangered?POPE: We think it'll definitely be fewer farmers raising tobacco. Few
warehousemen selling tobacco. And fewer companies manufacturing tobacco. But tobacco is still a cash . . . the cash crop for many farmers and all warehouse and the tobacco companies that have diversified. They earn more cash out of their tobacco products than they do any of their food goods or . . . distrib-, beer distributor or whatever they have . . . beer manufacturers. I feel like that over . . . over the long haul, we'll building our buildings so they can be basically used for anything, warehousing of foods, warehousing of grains, tobacco products, manufacturing of any type. And wherever the marketplace is, we'll try to convert our building to make it available for . . . for what's available . . . what's needed at that time.KLEE: I talked to one person that comes up here every year and . . . from . . .
as a Kentuckian, you don't realize, but he said that this place is awful gloomy during the winter. I mean, everything is dead, and it doesn't . . . it's not very green and so forth. Is it . . . is it . . . is it tough for you to have to come up here every year and live kind of in a strange place in a strange town? Have you regretted ever investing here, not just staying there?POPE: No, I been here on three different tenures and I wouldn't have come back
with an investment if, you know, if I had problems with the weather or with . . . with the town whatsoever, or with the climate. I worked out here several years back in the 50's and 60's, and didn't ever see the grass green. So I took off one summer and came up in the middle of the summer when the grass was green and the river was clean and flowing freely [chuckles] and you have a beautiful state.KLEE: Well, thank you very much. That's a good place to end. Thanks again.
POPE: Um, hmm. .
[End Tape #1, Side #2]
[End of Interview]
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