Oral History Interview with Henry Scarrbury

HENRY SCARRBURY May 10, 1977

[Begin Interview]

Henry Scarrbury: [inaudible] And I eat breakfast about 4:30, I leave home at five, I start, start to work at–

Interviewer: The, when we started to talk over there, and were talking about trying to find out what is a normal day like for you in, in the mine, what you do there, and all that type of thing.

Scarrbury: You, you didn’t want me to start back down when I started working. You just want to know what’s now?

Interviewer: Well, that, too. But why don’t you just take us through what it’s like now first. And then we can go back to that.

Scarrbury: Mm, hmm. You want me to start where we left off?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Scarrbury: Well, let’s see. I went to work at six o’clock of a morning. And I go inside, and they got coal, that scoops and loads the coal, dumps it on the belt line. They come outside, and then they got a big hydraulic drill. That we drill [?] with. Then they got a man that follows and chutes it. And you all know all through the day now the go along?

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.

Scarrbury: See that’s, that’s what we do now, all day long, see, see is that kind of work. You know we; we chute places and load it on the belt line. It come outside and into the hopper, you know, into the side, outside.

Interviewer: Okay.

[pause]

Scarrbury: I worked in two or three mines. Now the one, I’ll start with the old mine I worked at. Would that be all right?

Interviewer: Sure.

Scarrbury: Well, I worked at a[n] old mine, now it was just practically two miles deep. And it was thirty-six inches high. And that’s when we, well, well I start... We had a, we did have loaded shovels and coal pick, you know, shovels and bars to dig the coal and load it in cars. But now as the years went by, [ ] and so forth why we switched to mechanical work, which makes it so much easier and more pay, bigger money you see. Which then we, we made, say, from twelve dollars to fourteen, sixteen on up as we get our contracts paid. But now we make up as high as, well the highest is, counting the cost of living, that was sixty-four dollars and sixty-eight cents per shift. From, from that down to $54.54. At the lowest we pay the rates of the mines that we work now. And I, and its--its coop loading and mechanical work, and there’s no, no shovels or nothing at all. And what, which is so much easier, you know, than it was before they had the mines now, see, well it’s just, just, I’d say 100 percent better than they used to be. You don’t have to, you don’t know boot, any boot work. It’s all mechanical, and it’s so much easier, to work with that you. And we’ve got a mechanical machine that does, the machine that does the work, all the men does is just operate the machine.

Interviewer: Well, that’s–

Scarrbury: So, that’s a, that’s a difference from what we used to have, you see.

Interviewer: A lot more highly skilled.

Scarrbury: Oh, gosh, yeah. So much learning, you see. And then you take the schooling, you see. We’ve got this schooling there in district, like a district president sets up, well I just got out of a five-day schooling here a three weeks ago. Safety training and stuff for mining, you see, which you have to, and there’s mechanical work, you see, electrical work, which is a heck of a lot you see, on this here. And the mine, the mining is so much, so much better. It’s not like the old mining used to be, at all. Like a, like I say my father, you see he worked all his life, I say, with a pick and shovel bar loading in cars, mining cars. But now see we don’t have that anymore. It’s not, not boot work like it used to be. So, it gets so much easier. The younger miners now have got it, well, the younger miners, just like I said, told, theys [they are] talking the other day in our meeting. They don’t, they don’t know what really hard work is in the mines. The got [ ]. The work now is so much easier. If they had to do, I told them the other day, I said, “If you had to do like we used to do when I started, I said, I don’t believe you’d do it.” They said no. Course what we found out; said they wouldn’t do it. “Well,” I said, “you’d either do it or you, you wouldn’t have nothing to eat. You have to do it.” So that’s the, that’s the better we’ve got in the mines now, you see. And the young miners, they just, well, I’d say, well, they’ve got it 100 percent better than what we had when I started in the mines. When I started in the mines.

Interviewer: Why, why don’t, you tell us a little bit about that?

Interviewer 2: Are you getting more younger men in the mine now?

Scarrbury: Oh yeah, yes. We, see, they hire younger men now. You see, see the law is, you can’t hire any, any men unless they’re eighteen years of age, you see. In, in the mine industry. And, and those, see, the younger fellows now, they get more interested, we, we got a school, training. And, and, and a contract procedure now, you see. To get, they have to, the company has to, has to train all young miners that, that is hired in the mine industry. For at least ninety to a hundred and twenty days, for, for, for a piece of machine. Before that, man was turned loose himself on to learn machine, you see. That, that, that gives your young miners, gives the young fellows more, they won’t come into the [ ] mines see. They’re not only [ ] to run the machine, but they’re higher pay, you know, they get more pay. And, and see that what brings most of our younger miners now, because we’ve got so many young miners now in the mine. And more, that brings, you know, into the mining industry, you see. And that situation, and well, well, and another thing, when they go through these schools, they show films you know, the state department and the federal department shows films on how, how the mining is done now, and how, what it used to be. You see, shows how it used to be with a, as I said a while ago, the smoke situation, that the miner had to breathe you know and dust. When I was short then we either have to keep that, but the fire shot up in ten foot [feet] of you, [ ] right where you work, then, you see, see that younger miners, we invite them to go to these things, these schoolings, to see those films. And they, and they, they want to, want to apply for a job in the mine industry. And that’s...

Interviewer: Hold on just a second. I didn’t want Martha to make a noise and interrupt what you were saying. Okay. Tom, you were going to have something.

Scarrbury: I’ve been a, I guess this would answer your question more, I, I’ve been a local officer for off and on eighteen years. And I first went to off..., they asked me to run, they was a mining committee. You know, to take the grievances up and so forth, theys [they are] a, you know if they have a grievance at the mines or some kind of thing. Dispute comes up between a[n] employee and employer you know at the mine. And I went from there on to applying to secretary. I run for that, and I got that, and I kept it for, let’s see five years, I believe, five years. Then I’ve been a chairman safety committee for the last fourteen years, for the safety of our whole local union. Then I, then I ran for vi-, for president of our local union five years ago, and I’ve been the president of this local union for six years. And then I prac-, I’ve been off it for almost eighteen years in all since I’ve been in the mine there. In the coal mine.

Interviewer: Do, do, do the men–

[phone rings]

Interviewer: Earlier you were, the reason we’d asked–

Scarrbury: The mine I work now is, is 8, 8, 800 feet. And it’s a, it sets a number four seam, they call it. The number four seam mine and it’s forty-eight inches high. And, and that’s where I work now, you know. And what we do we, just as I said, we, we go through the same thing over and over all day long, you know. We drill and shoot, and you haul it to the loading point, you know.

Interviewer: Now would you have, mention that and how it works.

Scarrbury: Well, as a loading machine, as, when you shoot the coal, the loading machine, when the smoke gets out of it, the loading machine is like a big shovel. It’s got hydraulic jack lifts on it, it’s got levers on it, you set in it, set in the deck of it, of the leavers on it. And you pull the lever back, you know, to raise the front end of it, like a big shovel. Then you, then you mash on a pedal like a gas feed on a car. You know, it’s got big battery sets in it.

[pause]

Scarrbury: ...like operations, you know like with, we’ll send five to ten men, you know, according to how much they want, tonnage they want out of that mine, you know, production they want out of the mine.

Interviewer: You were saying the size, tell us about the size of your mine. When you talk about size of a mine, it’s, it’s based upon the tonnage, the amount of coal taken out? Is that the way people understand how large a mine is?

Scarrbury: Yeah. You want me to finish with the scoops...

Interviewer: Yeah, go ahead.

Scarrbury: Well, as I said, there’s a operative machine that they operated loads the coal. It’s got a big blade on it; it’s got levers and a hydraulic jack. You raise the lever, and you mash on the pedal like a gas feed on a car. And it pushes them batteries, you know, that juice from the battery, sets on a big battery on the side. And it, it pushes that under that pole. Then you raise a lever to raise it up, and then you haul it to called [ ] train. [ ] with a motor on it. So, you started it wound it up into a belt line, and the belt line then [ ] it outside into the, outside.

Interviewer: Now before that, you were talking about the coal had to be, that process for it…

Scarrbury: But the thing we drill it with and shoot it with…

Interviewer: Yeah, right.

Scarrbury: We’ll, you’ve, you’ve got a hydraulic drill. It’s, you, you, it’s got levers on it, it’s like with the hydraulic jacks, almost like a scoop operation. And you sat on it, just, you’ve got a seat that sits on it. And work, you work with a fork lever. Like I said a while ago, like a, like a scoop like thing, like a gas feed. And it’s got a big drill like a[n] oil drill on the end of it, you know. And then, then a switch [ ] and you drill for coal, and you drill [ ] according to how wide you want, the person know where the law, will let you have them twenty foot wide, by federal law. And you, you drill for from nine to ten caves, say eleven, twelve foot deep in the place of that coal. Then you put the blasting powder in it. So, we’d use seven, six, seven sticks to a whole. To shoot it out. And then you use a shooting cable with a battery and, to shoot it with. Then you worked a small [ ] and you start loading it then with a hopper.

Interviewer: You blast it out–

Scarrbury: You blast it out, then–

Interviewer: When you’re still in the mine? Or do you go outside?

Scarrbury: No. You, you’d be just down where you are. [ ] around the place where you are. Then you’d use the big, long cables, to carry you’re down that far.

Interviewer: How long will that be?

Scarrbury: Well, a cable, now say is from anywhere thirty to fifty feet of shooting cable, like a, like two wires.

Interviewer: Okay. Now we won’t be–

[pause]

Interviewer: Go ahead.

Scarrbury: Well, as I said, we drill, drill the coal with, with machinery that runs on rubber tires. Because rubber tires is like a car’s got. And it’s got tubes in it just like a car. They’ll go flat and run a machine up in there, four wheels on it. It’s got a big drill on it to deliver (drill?) the cable up. You know, goes to (?) fire line. And be right up in the place, you take it up and the frames (?) the hydraulic frame (?) anywhere you want to drill a hole. And you see, you drill it through that. But it’s like it’s a metal, like a metal, a big metal (?) with a bit, (?) bit (?) to drill for coal. And you drill (ten holes in the face of the coal?) as I said, and then you put your blasting powder in it. Then you load it with blasting caps and your powder. You stick one, and you stick your powder in the other, and you take a blasting cap and stick in one of them, like a hole with a (?). Then you take your (?) stick and plant it in that hole. Then you (roll them up across the floor, just like ???) Then when you get to the last two, you’ve got two wires, one on each side. And you’ve got a cable, then, that gets from one wire to the other. Then I set the shooting (?), it’s got two wires in it. You (?) that shooting (?), till you get thirty or forty feet back down around the (?) Because there won’t be nobody in the (danger?). Then you have to holler (“fire”?) three times before you blast it, see if there’s anybody close. And they will answer you, see, if they’re close, so you won’t fire. And then you just (?) and then you put the cable in the side of your button. You’ve got two buttons and there’s a light comes on. And then you press the buttons and the (press?) will shoot.

Interviewer: Is it very loud?

Scarrbury: Oh, yeah.

Interviewer: How loud?

Scarrbury: Well, it’s just like a big thunder. All at once. It’s shooting just all at once, like a big thunder, like a thunder in the sky, you know. Cloud thunder. And it makes a lot of dust, there’s a lot of dust, when it shoots, there’s a lot of dust. It’s like a dust storm (?) like a (?) picks up dust, (?) dust on the mine. Then the air, as I said, the air, you have to keep it up in ten feet of the place where your line, your (?) line. (?) it’s a big claw that you (?) from the top to the bottom. Just keep your (eyes?) toward the (?) all that dust back to the old (?) way back up to the (?) and so that’s the way we loaded with (?), you see.

Interviewer: Then you’re ready to (?)

Scarrbury: Then you’re ready to run operation on coal again, and production. As soon as your smoke clears up then you take your machine, your scoop, (?), and you go back under your coal, start loading coal again. Haul it to your loading point. (?)

Interviewer: Why don’t you tell us how many times a day that you scoop the coal?

Scarrbury: Well, if you ask about yesterday, we shot thirteen trips (?), we used thirteen cases of powder. You use a case of powder to (?) coal. Shooting (?) case of powder. You use thirteen cases of powder to shoot that thing, we shot thirteen places.

Interviewer: Is that very dangerous?

Scarrbury: Shooting?

Interviewer: Mm hmm.

Scarrbury: Well, it’s like I said. You have to be (?), you have to know where everybody’s at, then you’ve got to holler, like I said, “fire” three times before you shoot. If anybody’s close to you, he will hear you, and he will holler back to you that you are not to shoot, you know, until they get in the clear. So (?) your machine, your loading machine, or your drill or (?), machine. (?) And so you’ve got to know where everybody is before you can shoot (?)

Interviewer: So, when does the (?) machine go into action?

Scarrbury: Well, I guess I could tell you about, I could explain that as we go along, I guess. The (?) machine, it’s got four tires on it, just like a car. And (?) it’s got hydraulic levers and if you push on the one to go backwards or forwards, it’s like putting a lever on well, any kind of machine. Like (?) in a car. Mostly (?) Then you’ve got a head on the (?) that raises up and down automatically with a hydraulic. You know, you push a lever. Then you’ve got a big (bed?), say an inch, about an inch and a half, I guess, something like that. It’s just (done in the head of a square place?), and the head, you know, where your head turns. Then you raise that lever into the top to do the hole in the (top?), in the roof of your mind. Then you drill, say, if you want it 42 inches, (?) bits, two (customs?) or, say, one 24, or 16 or what it might be, a 48 or (whatever bits?), you have to put that size bolt in there. A (?) is made of, got a big plate on it with a (?) something like a, how do you explain that it’s got a (strip?) of something that tightens up and expands. And then you push that in the hole in the, and you turn a (lever?) then a (?) will turn and tighten that bolt in that hole. Then when you’re tired of (?) and the head won’t turn, then you let it off. Because even when the bolt tightens, (you have to see if it’s tight?). And that’s when (?) protect the (roof?). There’s no timbers, we don’t set timbers anymore. It’s all (roof bolting ?) in the mine now. We’ve gotten away from the timber situation.

Interviewer: Is that roof bolt can go after you’ve blasted or before?

Scarrbury: The roof bolting, the roof bolting man and the (?) makes it safe for every man in the mine. He’s the man that has to go back in that place when a (?) of coal is shot down (?) the scoop cleans it all up, then the roof bolting machine is the next man that goes in there. He’s got to mark it off, where he sets his bolts four foot wide. So, if you (?) bolts and stuff. And he’s got to make it safe, then, before any other man goes in that place. He’s got to safe before the drill goes in it, or anybody else. When he leaves it, then it’s safe for the next man to follow him. You see, as you go across shooting the (?) that’s what the purpose of the roof bolt man. He gets the highest pay of any man in the mines. He makes it safer for the next man following him. You see, that’s the highest paid man in the mine.

Interviewer: (Certain things, too, go on with that?)

Scarrbury: That’s right. The way you have to sit (?) I left off one thing. You have to (set jacks?) . Before he goes on with that, now he’s got three or four (jacks, screw jacks?), metal (jacks?), (?) the big (?) on the end of it like a big piece of iron. (?) and he tightens it up for him. If you’ve got (?) and he sets his bolts on (?) to make it safe for him. So that’s the way we do it now (?) I said about our (?), we have (scooters?) on this roof bolting (?). We’ve got a roof bolting (?) at our mine. Like I said, they hire young man for a roof bolter, he has to be trained for it before he’s turned loose. And he’s got to go in with a man that, it automatically runs the machines, and learn to run it before he’s turned loose on the machines. Then we’ve got a plan that they have to study on like a map, like a map. They make this plan. We (take test?) on the bulletin board at the mine. This man’s got to study that. And knowing what he’s done before he takes over this type of machine.

Interviewer: One time you undercut the coal, didn’t you? Why don’t you undercut it now?

Scarrbury: Well, you (?) the cutting machine. I know what you’re talking about. They used to use those now, but a long time, but that was sold to (best?), and (boy, you had to keep the sprinkler on?). Well, since they’re pretty low, you see, the (?), if they’re using that type of machinery, the cutting machine, it makes so much difference if you either have a rudder system or (something to run it?). Well since the (?) put it into law, they got a (?) machinery and just went back to the (?) again. They did well with what you call it, the way we do it now, they call it shoot from the (?). No (?) whatsoever in what we do.

Interviewer: That’s the old way, the real old way.

Scarrbury: Well, yeah, a long time ago.

Interviewer: Long time ago.

Scarrbury: Well, some of the operations now have got what they call them, continuous mines to cut the coal (?) up and down (?) Some places have got those mines. Well, none of their operations is not anything like (?) They did have them, but they just made away with them when they (?) this law that they had to have water or sprinklers to keep the (?)

Interviewer: Do the laws pretty well protect the miner now? Or is there legislation that needs to be done–

Scarrbury: Well, we need some improving in our safety laws. We’ve got some of them now. I hope we get them passed. But oh, gosh, yeah, if we didn’t have our safety laws under federal, we really couldn’t operate. The men (?) you have to have federal laws. There ain’t [is] no doubt about that. And a federal inspector. I like the state, now the state’s got (?) with federal law. I mean, safety net. (?) is a federal law. Because the federal law is (?) When they come around, you’ve got to have things up to meet their requirements, or you’re not going to operate. Which is more (safer?) for the miners (?) you have miners who (?) they want to come in the mines for this time and (?)

Interviewer: Something about that, how high is it in the mine, and so forth?

Scarrbury: Well, you’ve got different types of (?) coal now. You’ve got some seams that, as I said, it’s 48 or 50 inches, you can sit up in a machine and run it. Now a low seam of coal, like I was talking about a while ago when I worked down there at the old mine, say 36 inches, that’s three-foot [feet] high. So, you have to lay down on your side. And you’ve got to look around that piece of machinery to see where you’re going. You’ve got to lay down on your side and run that piece of machinery. It is hard when you just start. It’s hard, but you get used to it, you see. Just like anything else. You get used to it; you don’t mind. But when you’re first starting, it’s awkward and it’s hard to do. It’s hard to explain, you know, something like that. But you can lay down or someone now, they squat and hold their head way over sideways, and stuff like that. But most of them lay down (?) coal. As I said, 36 inches high, that ain’t very high. So, you’ve got to either lay down or you’ve got to be an awful short person. [laughter] So that’s the way that most of them run, just (?) Because when they lay down on their side and look around the side, and they’re on, they’ve got levers they can pull, there’s nowhere to keep their hands on those levers (that work?), you know.

Interviewer: Normally, what time do you start your shift at the mine? And what time do you quit?

Scarrbury: Well, a lot of mines got different starting times, you know. As the contract says, they must have a starting time. That’s (?) in the contract. Well now, where we were, our operator leave it up to the man to make their own starting time. If they want to start at six or seven, we start at six o’clock in the morning. And then our quitting time is two o’clock. We must leave outside of two o’clock. It’s an eight-hour day.

Interviewer: Where do you have your lunch? Tell us about that.

Scarrbury: Well, your lunch period, we take it in the middle of (?) , around four hours after we started. If we start work at six, say around ten we generally take lunch. We take thirty minutes for lunch. That’s what the contract give us (?), thirty minutes for lunch. And we’ve got a station we call a (man’s?) station. It’s made out of boards, like seats, benches, around where we’ve got a telephone. We’ve got telephones in the mines, too, you see. And we’ve got a bench made around there. We all come to that bench and sit down there to eat our lunch. And then when the thirty minutes are up, we start back coal production.

Interviewer: You don’t have to lay down on your side to eat lunch.

Scarrbury: No, no. We sit up. We’ve got a place shot out. We’ve got a place shot out in the top, say six or seven foot high. So, we (?) that you could, you’ve got benches, they’ve got backs on them. Just like benches made in a church house or something. Then we sit there and eat.

Interviewer: Did you always want to be a miner?

Scarrbury: Oh, yeah, yeah. My dad worked in the mines, you know, forty-eight years. And I went in as a miner’s son. I never took (?) in my life. I went in at seventeen years old. And I liked it, and that’s all I’d ever do. I’d heard (?) has good jobs.

[30 minutes]

Scarrbury: (?) right now. And I turned him down because I want to keep the job and (?) because I liked it and I was interested in (?), and that’s what I got used to, and that’s what I want to stay with, you know. And if you get, (?) is safe. Well, it’s not like it used to be. (Mining?) used to be dangerous. Because we didn’t have nothing (?) (and would shoot those off??) and then as I said a while ago, you got used to it and they’d protect (your top?). You got (?) you see. And then it was safer. It’s not that it’s not dangerous now, that’s even with the young miners coming back to the mines, it’s safer than it used to be.

Interviewer: What, there’s been a great change since your father’s mine–

Scarrbury: Oh, gosh, yes. (?) I’d say, had my daddy been alive today, if we’d have had the (?) like we’ve got now. See he had this black lung stuff that you call black lung. Once you (done, it was done?) When he died, he didn’t have any (?) He died three years ill. And he didn’t have any (lung?) If he’d had the ventilation that are in our mining systems back then that we’ve got now, (?) black lung like my dad had, he’d probably have been alive today. And the (provisions of governmental?) high pay, another thing, like the cost of living we’ve gotten there in the mine. See, we’re able to get so much per hour for cost of living, which increases every quarter under the contract, the contract (?) and a clothing allowance, see that’s what caused the young miners to come back to the mine. So, they’ve got seventy-five dollars a year for clothing allowance. To buy clothing for the mine. And stuff like that. And vacation pay. See, now my dad didn’t get any vacation whatsoever the time he worked in the mine. See ever since I started, I said I’ve got the first vacation that’s ever (?) all this big pay and extra vacation stuff (?) See when I started there in the mine, I got the first twenty dollars, start out with twenty dollars vacation. Now it’s twelve times (?) for vacation pay. Then you get two weeks (?) vacation, you see. That helps a lot, you know. And see (?) more (?) in the mine now. But our fathers (?)

Interviewer: What do you like to do on– [phone interruption] Do you enjoy working in the smaller type mines rather than the larger ones?

Scarrbury: Well, I do, because you’ve got, smaller mines, you’ve got all the (?) or parts of machinery in there. There are certain parts of machinery, of course, it’s certain type of machine to (?) in the larger mine. But so, it’s not a good (?) they’ve got some more (?), see, a smaller mine, it’s more convenient, I think. You don’t got [get] too many of these, you don’t have too many of these bosses. You’ve just got one boss and he’s part of the mine, and you (?) in a bigger mine you’ve got a (?), you’ve got a foreman, you’ve got different types of bosses. (?) of course I worked in a big mine before. I worked in a big mine for a long time. But I liked the smaller mine the best. Well, they’re just as safe as a bigger, if not safer. Because all the mines now have (?) So the smaller mines now is just as safe as a big mine. Or they’re more safe [safer] because they’re not as (?) as much, or (?) as much (?) as a big mine operation.

Interviewer: Is there more fellowship among the people you’re working with because you get to know them better? The other miners?

Scarrbury: In the smaller mines?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Scarrbury: Well, yes. In the smaller mines you are kind of (talking with?), you see, you’ve got one crew (?) I say one crew, it’s six or seven men. But we’re all trying to (?) you see. In the big mines, you just got someone run one type of machine. (?) comes around to tell you to do something else. In the smaller mines, you (?) in smaller mines.

Interviewer: What do you normally do on your vacation? What do you like to do?

Scarrbury: Well, I like to visit some from my kids, too, but I never get the chance. (?) certainly do. Like she (?) kids, why I like to visit with (?) I’ve got some kids. I’ve got one over there in South Dakota. And I’ve got one in (?) And I (?)

Interviewer: Where is (?)

Scarrbury: (?) And then (?) has been the (life and the joy?) of the family.

Interviewer: Are any of your kids in mining?

Scarrbury: No. I’ve had four girls. All girls. Don’t have any boys.

Interviewer: You were telling me you’re thinking about buying this home when the man wants to part with it.

Scarrbury: This home, I’ve been here twenty-five years. I’ve raised my family here. I hope to buy it a (little later?). (?) and I hope to buy it pretty soon. They said they would sell it to me. (skip the long way around?) I hope to buy it. I’d like to stay here. I’d like to fix it the way I want to fix it. I want to fix it the way I want, of course you (?) if you’re renting. You can’t spend too much money on somebody else’s property unless you (?) the way I want to be. I hope (my children will help?)

Interviewer: Is it very hard to find homes to buy?

Scarrbury: Oh, oh, gosh, yes. And you can’t find a piece of ground to build on. It’s like, like the (man up the road?), you’ve got plenty good house (seats up through here?), (?) up through here. But the (?) will set up this around the (building hassle?). (?) but I don’t know what would happen, see he was, this is his second wife, he’s got (an Oriental wife?). She says she’s going to sell it whenever– after buying my home, a place to put my home, but there’s no (?) it’s hard to find.

Interviewer: It’s not the salary, it’s just that it’s hard to find land.

Scarrbury: It’s hard to find the place to put your home on or fix you a place to build a house. I went by the (?) trailer. I tried to buy it. But they’d only give you a (100 meter?) or give me a double wide mobile home to put on it. But there was nobody would sell it to me. So that’s a problem (?) matters has got around here. Now (?) folks (?) And a lot of them used to be (renters?). Like I said, my dad was (?) You had discouraged the builder to raise your family. If you’re (?) that’s a pretty good-sized family. It was not a (?) . And my daddy had built (during night?). We had to farm on hillsides. And (Nadine?) was (?) . We had to run cattle, cows, (from hut?), from chickens and stuff like that. And you either did that or you did, you had (?)

Interviewer: Where you make enough to buy almost all your food at store, supermarkets.

Scarrbury: Right. And see, I didn’t even go anywhere (out of town?) because when I’m waking up in the morning the (?) and the mine (most of the time is dark?), most of them are. (?) By Thursday, you didn’t have nothing like that, you had to make something like that. What you made, you had to spend on your (?) So.

Interviewer: Are you a member of the church?

Scarrbury: I’m not. I should be. I should be. I think (?) I should be.

Interviewer: What do you do on weekends? Or with the time in the afternoon, getting off at two o’clock, you’ve got a lot of sunlight left.

Scarrbury: Well, I (?) stuff I got around here. And I do the (?) what time he (?) union rep or something, a lot of evenings I don’t get home before five o’clock. (?) union (?) See, I got twenty-two men in my local union. Which keeps me pretty well busy.

Interviewer: You seem to really enjoy the union.

Scarrbury: Oh, the union’s my life. I love the scene. Unions has raised my family. And the (?) It’s really brought a great life to my family. (?) ain’t [there is] no doubt about it, I (?) like I said, he’d been dead twenty years (?) to pay the (?) hospital bills. At that time, why at that time, see, we didn’t know, we didn’t have the money to pay for those visits. I said, we would have paid them, we’d (?) . So, the family hated (?) live with cutting his whole arms off. It cost $8600 at one time. And the firm paid that. So, we didn’t have no way to pay it. He had died twenty years, or I estimate he’d have died twenty years before we had the (?) doctor’s visits. So, the union does that much for you and your family. I could to (?) waiting. I have to. Otherwise, (?) alive and I have to stay that way.

Interviewer: The unions don’t want for the–

Scarrbury: Well, in this part of the country, you’ve got to have union, or you can (?) I never lived back on the, (?) before we had a union. I mean, I wasn’t old enough to work. I was (?) I know before we had a union, he’d come, and he’d lay down behind the cook stove. He lived up (?) about eight miles from here. He laid down where that little wood cook stove. He’d lay down behind, lay right there and (?) back to work, he wasn’t able to go. They’d either (?) or they’d shoot you down or cut a corner taking (?) but you made it up or you didn’t have no job. There was a cleanup system, and you had no job to come back to.

Interviewer: Where did that clean up system as opposed to what you do now?

Scarrbury: Well, the cleanup system, that was pretty new to me. They did put a man (at that place?), like cut a (coat?) like I say, shoot (?) . They were (?) shoot the coal mine part of the time. But sometimes (?) the sheriff (?) He had lost (?) and (?) crack, like a crack, like a car crack, (?) keep drilling holes yourself, and you shoot at yourself. When you clean up, you either clean up or you didn’t have no job, you wouldn’t go back to work. That was in (?) clean that all up or don’t come back.

Interviewer: Regardless how many–

Scarrbury: Regardless how many hours it took. You took the fifteen hours and there was fourteen, you stayed there until it was done. So, as I told (Benini?), talk about these things. I said, “I don’t want to (?) that time from my children and the grandchildren.” I said, “I don’t (see time like that anymore?).” I said, (?) and appreciate what we’ve got now. I said, “Our fathers and grandfathers made this (?).” Cause I told him (a silver platter?). We have one generation now (?) and if they don’t so far, we’ve got nobody to blame but themselves. And if they don’t do more than what they’ve done, now a lot of place[s] (?) right now, I (?) it never comes back to that. I don’t want to see that time back like it used to be. I hope I’ll never see it. Because as I told them, I said, “I’ve got a good (lawyer?), just take me (?). I don’t want to see that. I don’t want to see my grandchildren through that time.” I said, “I want to make it better for my children and grandchildren that’s coming up here.” I said, “That’s what we have to do. If we don’t, what’s going to happen to (them?).” And (?) the union and stuff. That could happen. And as my wife said to me, (?) or I’ll go crazy (?) the union or somebody else to (?) somebody got (?) to do it.

Interviewer: Is it–

Scarrbury: (?) by myself. I said, “We’ve got to (? The younger miners there?) The other ones might have been told what the man used to have to go through, what the union is doing for them, for their families and things. I said, (?) to tell the younger miner what this union means to them and get (?) to him. They’ve got to support it. You see, that’s the biggest problem we’ve got today, is the little (?) well most of them, you know how young miners are. I was young, myself. All you know is a big (?) big cars have to drive and (?) you don’t get (?) going to the union meeting and see what’s going on, or (?) for the union. Well, if you get those miners, you could talk to them. See, a lot of them young fellows don’t listen to you, but they say (?) That’s the problem we have today, the way I see it, we’ve got today is give a (?) younger miner. [pause] –have a (?) most protection, the man who works in (?) deductible.

Interviewer: What other (?) opportunities are there in the in the area, other than mining?

Scarrbury: That’s about all we’ve got around here is nothing but mining. In fact, that’s all we’ve got in this country. The biggest (?) kind of opportunities (?) (poor planning ?) in Eastern Kentucky, (?) other people in Eastern Kentucky, that’s all they’ve got, that’s all they’ve got (?) Well, not anymore. It used to you had a few bottom ground if you could farm. But now, since they’ve got these washes at these (clean points?) and the strip mine in the hills, the coal operator (?) the bottom ground are the (level?) places to dump these slag piles on them (?) the clean points, back up here where ( I work?), there was two big bottoms, all I (saw?) was fifteen to twenty acres in a bottom. Well, they bought both of those bottoms now. Now they’re filled up twenty-five foot high. (nothing?) but pure old slag (burns?) comes out of this coal at the (cleaning?) plant.

Interviewer: You also have to have flat land to build the buildings.

Scarrbury: Well, later on, (?) have to put so many foot [feet] of dirt over the top of them, then you put (dumping?) on it, after you (lower?) the mountain. Which will be a place for building or houses or (?) to build on stuff like it. You take (?) like it used to be at the living, you had to go on (ESI?) or something to make a living. The strip mining was (?) when it first started, (?) there’s no more of that anymore. Not like it used to be.

Interviewer: Are any of the strip mines where they’ve done a reclamation job? Or is that ground any good?

Scarrbury: Well, we had one back here. The Kentucky Coal Company has had (?) I was back in there, say, it was about three years ago because (?) it’s level. They leveled it off. It’s nice back there. And you go back there and (?) grass and trees and stuff. (?) caused so many other problems. Because they shoveled the dirt over in the holler. Called (?) and covered up all the timber. And if that stays, the way I see it, if it stays, if it keeps doing that, it’s not going to be there for their grandchildren and stuff to, so whatever they done it won’t be any timber. Because it’s going to be tore up by (?). shoved all [of] them [those] big rocks and covered all that timber up, pumped from one hill to another. All that timber’s covered up. If they keep doing that, I don’t see how there’s going to be much of it left. So, in twenty years, or thirty from now, it’s not going to be there. It’s all going to be covered up, the timber’s going to be all covered up or tore up, by the strip-mining company.

Interviewer: Is there much good timber around yet to be cut and sold as timber?

Scarrbury: Well, not about around here. Not around here. In different areas now, there might be, but not around here. Most timber around here has been, that is good, has been cut up and hauled to make to the sawmills and stuff like that. Or shipped out on rail and boxcars. (?) not much good for lumber.

Interviewer: Are there enough, are there enough men coming up to take care of this whole industry, going into mining today?

Scarrbury: Well, I don’t think so. We’ve got a few (?) that’s supposed to be opening up, around there’s supposed to be another mine or two open up there in Pike County, that I understand. A big mine (?) but I think we would have an end to, even the young miners, to be employed in these mines. Because there are quite a few young miners now that’s (?) to the mines, that (?) to be (hard?) for the mines. I think (?) young miner to (?) in the job (?)

Interviewer: The– I lost my thought.

Interviewer: What do you think that the solution is to the refuse problem in the mines? Is it mining techniques? Or just you need to do more reclamation? Or is it something that can be solved?

Scarrbury: You’re talking about (?) equipment and making better his job (?) in the mine?

Interviewer: No. You were talking about the reclamation of the strip mines and everything, and how it was such problem damaging the timber and what not. What can be done about it?

Scarrbury: Well as we often recommended to the legislature in Frankfort, we tried to stop the strip mines, you know, that was ten or twelve years ago. Before the (?) and the state law, and so forth, and the federal law (?) certain procedures to strip mine. What we were suggesting was to all be deep mines, not have a strip mine. So that would give more men jobs, you see. Instead of (?) big (?) of coal, next to, on top of (?) they call it (number four seen?) somewhere in the hollers, though, (?) 89 foot high. And you take a deep mine on a coal seam of that size, (?) put a lot of miners, want the miners to work. (?) give more opportunities (?) That’s what we asked for, but we got outvoted on it (?) and some of the (?) cleaned their areas that they do over, back to (?) and so forth as you call it on a strip mine. Well, they’re going to let them, (?) certain (?) to do (?) as long as they (?) see that it is done so I don’t know how, I don’t know when, (?) they’ll do it or not. But some all has been done, as I understand, over in (Burn?) County, about three weeks ago, (all I know?), kind of got, had (gotten over a ?) strip mine. There’s that one big (?) mine left. (?) strip mines. I went back home (?) County, but that man’s got a big strip mine operation (?) he did strip mines, he did, that were sold and reclaimed, they were sold and (?), six to eight inches of (?) sooner or later you’d be a billionaire or not for (?) have them [those] (deers in this country?). Because (?) I think, or animals. But (?) he’d done a good job. But what he was doing, there were so many of them building it.

Interviewer: The problem is getting everybody to do it.

Scarrbury: The problem is to get the (?) enforced to everybody. Everybody do it. That’s a problem.

Interviewer: Is the strip mining safer now than the deep mining?

Scarrbury: Some of them claims it is, but I can see, I can see (?) put in a strip mine outside of a strip mine (?) you hardly ever have a fatal accident in the deep mines now like they used to have. Because, as I say, you’ve got more stuff to protect. (?) timber to hold a piece of rock. Now you’ve got bolts that are four foot [feet] apart. Or closer, if necessary. They can’t be no wider, but they can be closer. They can be closer, but no wider than four foot [feet]. (?) once you’ve got your plan set up, don’t go out and protect (?) So I can see where the strip mine is safer than a deep mine.

Interviewer: I think we’re–

[60 minutes]

[End Interview.]