Oral History Interview with George Blalock & Leona Blalock

[Begin Interview]

Interviewer: How did the, how did the company pay the men?

Leona: How did they pay us?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Leona: Well, they paid them by cash for a long time.

Interviewer: Did they ever pay them in scrip?

Leona: No, they didn’t pay them in scrip.

George: Yeah, they did.

Leona: They would [ ] scrip.

George: Honey, you’re wrong. They paid in scrip.

Interviewer: I ‘ve got to change–

George: And in order to keep running, they claim that they’d have to pay some scrip, not cash.

Interviewer: Ok. We’re with Mr. and Mrs. Blalock. Is that correct? In Morton’s Gap. And today is Friday the twenty-third, on the historical society coal show.

George: Twenty-fourth.

Interviewer: It’s twenty-fourth. My watch didn’t change. [pause] If you had to take scrip sometimes, could you tell us a little bit about that?

George: Well, now, on certain days, they would issue scrip. Sometimes two days a week, or maybe next week one day. Just different periods, you’d have to take scrip. And then you had to buy something that the company had with this scrip. And you could get face value if you bought something that they had with the scrip. But if you needed any cash, you had to give them 20 percent discount and get cash, if you wanted some cash to go somewhere else and buy something that somebody else had. Now that was there idea for scrip.

Interviewer: Why did, why did they only pay on, did they pay you part of the time with money, and then the rest of the time with scrip? Why did they make the difference?

George: Well, they just had some days that they didn’t want to be out altogether money, and they’d give you scrip. Of course, you’d have to pay, spend it back with them, because it wasn’t any good anywhere else. And you had to get it back. And they had company stores, and they’d get the profit out of it, because you couldn’t go nowhere else and spend it.

Interviewer: Did, did anyone ever figure out why they did that?

George: Well, they done it to keep from being out anything. Being out cash. And they could make more money by paying the scrip. Because most of them would go and discount it with them, the 20 percent. Can’t you see where there’d be a profit in [ ]?

Interviewer: In other words, a lot of it.

George: Well, in a way, that’s what they had in mind. That’s what they had in mind.

Interviewer: That’s pretty bad when you have to finance the–

George: And you had to, you had to buy. They would have radios and furniture. And They didn’t have TVs back in those days.

Interviewer: Washing machines

George: Washing machines and everything like that. And you’d have to buy that from them, with that scrip. [tape noise] go somewhere else.

Interviewer: Was there other places to go? Quite a few other places you could have traded at besides...

George: Oh, sure! Lots of places that you could take your money and, that wasn’t a coal company. But they owned everything. They owned the houses, and they owned everything around them. You had to live in the house, and you had to take that scrip.

Interviewer: What were the houses like?

George: Well, they were just mostly three-room houses, built real[ly] cheap. Three-room houses was what they called company houses. And you had to live in them.

Unidentified speaker: Or pay rent on them.

George: And pay rent to the company in these houses. And no one owned a house then. Hardly ever you found anybody to own a house. Wasn’t no such thing as a person owning a house that worked for the company. Once in a while there would be. But very seldom anyone worked in the mines then owned his own home. And he had to live in their house if he worked for them. And if they argue and you said you didn’t want to live in their house, or [ ] job, they just didn’t hire you if you couldn’t live in the house. I know one fellow at White Plains got a job, fellow by the name of Whitfield, and he owned his place up there. And he come down here and got a job with the coal company, and they told him that he would have to move in one of their houses. And he owned a house. Well, he needed a job so bad that he just moved in one of theirs and rented his. Had to do that.

Interviewer: What did you have to pay in rent for...?

George: Huh?

Interviewer: What was your rent did they charge? What did they charge you?

George: Well, I don’t remember just what the rent was. It wasn’t too high back in them days. The rent, I don’t remember. Do you, Leona?

Leona: Oh, sometimes six, seven dollars was as high as the rent went.

George: Six or seven dollars.

Interviewer: Did you, did you always work at the, the payroll office?

Leona: Well, I guess I worked at the payroll office from ’26. [pause]

Interviewer: This is reel three. We’re continuing in Morton’s Gap. And you were, you were telling us about the, the cut system, the deductions, and that type of thing. How did that work?

Leona: Well, they had a list of their houses. And we’d charge them the rent on the payroll. We divided it on every house. And then the coal was charged to them, or their scrip. And the doctor’s list was charged. And just everything that they bought went through the payroll [clock chiming], was charged to them. They got their staples every two weeks. Paid off twice a month. [pause]

Interviewer: Now you were telling us about the deduction system. Could, could you explain that again, how things were automatically taken out of a person’s pay at the mines? And just take us through all the, all the cuts, and what they call it, and all that?

Leona: Well, we had payroll every two weeks. And we charged the men their house rent. Half on each half. And they were charged the scrip that they drew out. We charged the coal they bought. We charged the doctor’s list. And we charged the drug list. And anything that they had that they bought that they was making payments on, we’d charge that. We did that every two weeks. Took it up to payroll, and they paid off in cash at the payroll window. They do it in the envelope.

Interviewer: Did– [pause]

Leona: Either one could get them.

Interviewer: Uh, did, [pause] cash.

Leona: It was cash. They paid off in cash. [pause]

[Unidentified speaker talking out of microphone range] Well, (?) I started working (?) and at that time, it was all manual. Men loading the coal by hand. (?) mechanization come around, (?) loaded your coal by hand. (?) the coal was used (in banks?) We used (tracks?) and men loaded the coal, to start with, seventy-five cents for a (?) cut twenty-two foot wide and four-foot-eight. (?) a room with a height (?) twenty-two feet in width, four feet in height. Twenty-two foot wide. (?) coal first, then they drill three holes: one in the center, one on each side. And they use black powder to shoot that (?) and then load that coal twenty-two foot (?) And for seventy-five cents. They’d load that for seventy-five cents a (room?). (?) A good (?) man could load two of them (?) That would make him a dollar and a half. For them two (?) they called them rooms. They called them rooms. And he could load two of them if he worked (?) Well, in latter day, later on, they got to weighing by the ton. Nineteen cents a ton. They couldn’t load (?) nineteen cents a ton. And the cars held two tons if you can load it up (?) and you got nineteen cents a ton (?) Well, and they would put so many men in one room loading together, which no one can make very much. They didn’t want us to make very much because they could get it all back (?) because they’d have so many men loading coal, you couldn’t get any more. (?) They kept it crowded so no one could make very much. That a way, what you did make, they got it all back. Because you’d have to spend it with them (?) . And then, later on, they’d haul that coal outside with a mule and (grade it?) (?) They’d have to stockpile it outside.

Interviewer: Stockpile it (?)

George: Yeah. And then (?) outside in hot weather. And sometimes they had to (?) the whole (?) till they had (?) Then if they got a (market for it?), they would throw that in (?) That’s all they wanted was (?) You could take the mules, they would have mule drivers. You’d get the mules outside. (?) And you’d take the mules out of the stable in the morning. The driver (?) They would have the mules, the harness, the (?), all but the bridle. They didn’t have his bridle because (?) without the driver. The driver was (?) driver, but the driver of the mules, take them over to the mines. And the men would get in these little cars, and they would go in the mines and the mules would take them to their work. They’d work ten hours. And at noon they fed the mules in the mine. They’d take all the hay and feed them at noon time. Thirty minutes. While the men were eating, the mules were eating. And then that afternoon, around five o’clock, then we got out (?) bring the mules out, and they had a long trough, a watering trough. Four feet wide, and it was ten times (?) the mules would get mud, dust, (?) all in the mines. And the (?) water had (?) they would go through this (?) they’d go through that. And that washed the stuff off their legs. And they were (?) and then, later on, they got paid thirty-eight cents a ton. Went from (?) seventy-five cents per (?) Then it was nineteen. Then they got it to thirty-eight. (?) Then they would still keep the mines crowded when it got to thirty-eight cents a ton. They tried to keep it crowded then, so you couldn’t make any more. They didn’t want to have to be out much pay when payday (?) they had cut all (?) doctor bill, (?) we’d cut that off and use it, there wasn’t much left. When they paid off in cash, an envelope about that long. Peeled it up. And they didn’t have no statement or anything on there (?) And finally they got a statement, statement, all of that. I think (?) You didn’t do that all first. You just (?) and that went on. As times got better, they got to paying more. Now the men (?) conditions were so bad, they (?) the company (caught them?) on that because they didn’t want them to have a union. And they bring guards in because, again, they had (?) coming in trying to organize. And they bring guards (come up in the mountain?) And I guess they would kill you (?) this fellow tried to organize in the mines, and he went around, I never will forget it. He went around, I saw him once after I got old enough (?), and he had a little short (?) about that long. He would (?) (and joined the union?) (?) But if they ever found out that you was joining the union or went to a union meeting, (?) will tell you they (?) now that’s all the (?) well, I went on down (?) and they fight the union, and fight the (law?) went on, finally they did, Roosevelt passed that law. They couldn’t argue with joining the union. You had a right to collective bargaining. But then, they begin to (?) after he pass that law (?) Now they still, if you didn’t watch, they’d still find some fault. If they didn’t fire you, they’d find fault with your work and make it so disagreeable that they didn’t have to fire you. You’d just quit (?) and you couldn’t go nowhere else. In those times, you had to take whatever it (?) If you went to another mine, their conditions were just like it was at the first one. It wasn’t unusual (?) at that time, if you went to another, why the conditions were the same way. (?) organize. If you give any trouble, they’d (?) all you [had] done in the mines (?) “Don’t hire him, because we had trouble with him. He’s (?) the union.” Well then, they got where (?) Well if you (?) believed in it, they (?) Now they finally got where (?) and they finally unionized. And they got paid a pretty good price. The men got to where (?) and people got to build a little house of their own (?) they got where they (?) and in fact, after they got (?) because when they paid that scrip, they didn’t have (?) and they claimed they were (?) they had to pay you scrip so they could operate. To tell you the truth, after they got the union, they prospered as well as the next. Because the union men, for them to treat you right, and you do a good job. I was the president of the union. And they (?) treating you so bad. And you do a good job. (?) and the younger men, all they (?) now, (?) do as little as you can, and get (?) and most of them don’t care if (you tell the truth?). (?) and most of them were (?) didn’t know their name. As a rule, they were the ones that caused trouble. (?) educated or any at all, usually he wasn’t the one causing trouble. The one that didn’t know (?) those were the ones that caused the trouble (?) go down there and (?) one of these hot heads is (?) hot head is (?) Then it got to where the (?) good (?) call in them scabs and (?) because they (?) [I just really can’t hear this; it is too far away from microphone]